Author Topic: Strange fire 2017  (Read 385 times)

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Offline francis drake

Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 10:18:00 PM »

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exactly so  - we do not have the gifts and fruits - what we have is division, disunity, disharmony, errors, contradictions, confusion and madness attributed to inspiration and guidance via the Holy Spirit = what we have is blasphemy imho - twinc
So your answer is to reject guidance by the Holy Spirit then?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2017, 12:16:21 AM »
What people say and the underlying actions are quite different

I do not believe for one second that you have never read the bible @wincam


imho - dazzle



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2017, 12:18:03 AM »
BTW - you are having fellowship ATM

This is Church, communion, communing, communal living, fellowship, life, communication, harmony,family,

You are using your knowledge of the bible to argue your defence and Church is what you are doing now.

You do not fool me

Unless  of course you are just havng a discussion as an athiest or nonbeliever /unbeliever/ in which case you are using Apologetics.

I do not believe you "do not know the bible or that you do not have fellowship.

I are indeed in self denial... or like the hebrews would say "in De Nile"  :laugh:


see : https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=9963.msg67676#msg67676 




 imho - dazzle
https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=9963.msg67676#msg67676

Offline John

Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »
Wincam,
             "what we have is division, discontent, differences, deception, errors, confusion, confrontation disunity, disharmony and chaos all claimed as a result of inspiration and guidance "

What on earth do you expect. We are all sinfull people, full of pride, desires and ambitions.
Don't you realise that the devil actively opposes Christian work.

Because Christians disagree would you have us not seek to work together?
Would you rather we undid all the work Christians have done over the centuaries and live under 1st centuary laws and morals.

I'm sure 1st centuary Christians squabbled over collecting abandon babies caring for the sick etc.

Would you undo Shafesburies legal reforms about work? 

What about Christian missionary work it involves Christians working together, disagreeing, resolving issues and getting the job done.

It is very easy to critise Christian churches, organisations and people but can you come up with an alternative?

Offline Cariad

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Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2017, 10:47:55 AM »
imho most Christians are on an ego trip to hell claiming inspiration, guidance and indwelling by the Holy Spirit and not accepting that they are fragmented, fallible and fallen and producing fruits that are an unforgiveable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - knowing not nor willing to accept that like the Pharisees of old they do err not knowing the scriptures[Mk.12:24] - I have discovered that most errors and mistakes occur because we apply to ourselves what does not apply to us e.g.Jn 14:17 - according to Hebrews now is the time of the Church where to hear His voice - the Holy Spirit has impeccably done what He was consigned to do and we have the scriptures that they did not have etc - twinc   

Hello @wincam,

I agree (quote) that, 'most errors and mistakes occur because we apply to ourselves what does not apply to us'.

You give John 14:17 as an example of a verse which has been misapplied, and also refer to Hebrews, (quote) 'according to Hebrews,' in regard to your closing remarks concerning hearing His voice: but you do not give a reference. There are three verses in Hebrews which contain the words, 'hear His voice' - (Heb.3:7,15 & Heb.4:7) which of these are you referring to?  Each reference refers back to - (Deut.4:36 & Psa. 95:7). 

I agree that the Bible is the Holy Spirit's Sword, and is the means by which we receive His instruction and the knowledge of God, in Christ Jesus.

Praise His Holy Name!

Cariad

Offline Cariad

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Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2017, 11:03:29 AM »
Wincam,
             "what we have is division, discontent, differences, deception, errors, confusion, confrontation disunity, disharmony and chaos all claimed as a result of inspiration and guidance "

What on earth do you expect. We are all sinfull people, full of pride, desires and ambitions.
Don't you realise that the devil actively opposes Christian work.

Because Christians disagree would you have us not seek to work together?
Would you rather we undid all the work Christians have done over the centuaries and live under 1st centuary laws and morals.

I'm sure 1st centuary Christians squabbled over collecting abandon babies caring for the sick etc.

Would you undo Shafesburies legal reforms about work? 

What about Christian missionary work it involves Christians working together, disagreeing, resolving issues and getting the job done.

It is very easy to critise Christian churches, organisations and people but can you come up with an alternative?

Hello @John,

You list the undoubted benefits experienced by society, by having a Christian community within it.  A Christian community which is obedient to the instruction that the Holy Spirit has given in His Word regarding loving it's neighbour as itself.

What @wincam questions, I believe, is what is ascribed to the operation of the Holy Spirit among certain Christian communities today, which manifests itself in ways which are not godly, and therefore cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit. 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



Offline wincam

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Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2017, 12:15:18 PM »
Hello @wincam,

I agree (quote) that, 'most errors and mistakes occur because we apply to ourselves what does not apply to us'.

You give John 14:17 as an example of a verse which has been misapplied, and also refer to Hebrews, (quote) 'according to Hebrews,' in regard to your closing remarks concerning hearing His voice: but you do not give a reference. There are three verses in Hebrews which contain the words, 'hear His voice' - (Heb.3:7,15 & Heb.4:7) which of these are you referring to?  Each reference refers back to - (Deut.4:36 & Psa. 95:7).


in Hebrews 1:1 we are told God spoke through the prophets and then later by His son and now at Lk 10:i6 we are told by His Church and not just any John, Richard or Mary - twinc 

I agree that the Bible and the Church via the Holy Spirit is the Sword, and is the means by which we receive His instruction and the knowledge of God, in Christ Jesus.

Praise His Holy Name!

twinc
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline Cariad

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Re: Strange fire 2017
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2017, 02:21:42 PM »
Hello @wincam,

I agree (quote) that, 'most errors and mistakes occur because we apply to ourselves what does not apply to us'.

You give John 14:17 as an example of a verse which has been misapplied, and also refer to Hebrews, (quote) 'according to Hebrews,' in regard to your closing remarks concerning hearing His voice: but you do not give a reference. There are three verses in Hebrews which contain the words, 'hear His voice' - (Heb.3:7,15 & Heb.4:7) which of these are you referring to?  Each reference refers back to - (Deut.4:36 & Psa. 95:7).


in Hebrews 1:1 we are told God spoke through the prophets and then later by His son and now at Lk 10:16 we are told by His Church and not just any John, Richard or Mary - twinc 

Quote
I agree that the Bible and the Church via the Holy Spirit is the Sword, and is the means by which we receive His instruction and the knowledge of God, in Christ Jesus.

Praise His Holy Name!

twinc

'He that heareth you heareth Me;
and he that despiseth you despiseth Me;
and he that despiseth Me despiseth Him that sent Me.'

(Luk 10:16)

Hello @wincam,

Thank you for responding.

However, Luke 10:16, is spoken to the seventy (Luk.10:1), who had been commissioned and equipped for the work they were sent out to do.  It is not spoken to us, today.  It is Christ, 'the Son,' through Whom God spoke in those 'last days' of Hebrews 1. The Hebrew believers 'heard' through 'them that heard Him' (Heb.2:3), namely the Twelve, God confirming their witness 'with signs following' (Mark 16:20).  That is not the experience of those who preach the gospel today.

We now, 'hear', through the Scriptures that testify of Christ.  For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


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