Author Topic: The scriptures are not the final arbiter  (Read 61 times)

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Online francis drake

The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« on: November 15, 2017, 05:21:46 PM »
As those who know me will probably guess, the title was designed to wind people up.

Lets be clear, I believe that the scriptures are "God Breathed."

I believe that in the original language, they were inerrant.

I reject idea that the bible is "The Word of God", as that title belongs to Jesus alone, and Jesus is not a book, no matter how wonderful that book.
John1v1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"In the beginning was the bible", is not what John1v1 says!

I reject the notion that the King James Version as a translation is perfect, as some would have us believe.
(Incidentally, my personal bible for the last 40 odd years has been the Scofield Reference King James Bible! I've obviously had to replace it several times as it fell to pieces through over use.)

But here is the issue I want to raise.
I suspect that all would claim they are basing their arguments on the scriptures, however that is just not true! We all merely base our arguments on what we believe the scripture is saying!

So, other than in the obviously plain and simple verses, how do we discern what the bible truly says?

Has anyone spotted this blooper?
John21v20Then Peter, turning about, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following; who also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, who is he that betrays you?
21Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22Jesus said unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? you follow me.
23Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus did not say "He shall not die"; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you?


So Jesus is actually in the midst of them teaching, and the disciples still manage to mangle his words and meanings.

If the disciples can mess it up so easily, its surely foolish for any of us to boast that our argument alone is based on the bible. In truth, our arguments are merely based on what we think the bible says.



Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 06:42:10 PM »
Hi Frances
Wound up like a bottle top sleeves rolled bell ringing in my ears all ready for round one ;)

Yes Jesus is the word of God and the word of God is the sword of truth.

I believe the KJV was inspired by the holy Spirit I believe if the creater of the universe wanted us to have a book this would be it of course I can't prove this but its my belief.

The bible is the only yard stick we have to check what others say we have nothing else but I believe we should respect what others say.

Not sure what your point is with the disciple Jesus loved can you explain.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 04:33:59 PM »
Not just what we think the bible is saying, but also what our bias makes us think it is saying.

Online francis drake

Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 09:17:45 PM »
Hi Frances
Wound up like a bottle top sleeves rolled bell ringing in my ears all ready for round one ;)
And I thought you were a pacifist Dave.
When I bash you with scripture, you should just keep quiet and turn the other cheek! But you insist on fighting back...........you're a fake pacifist. Lol :-X
Just be quiet and take your punishment!
Quote
Yes Jesus is the word of God and the word of God is the sword of truth.

I believe the KJV was inspired by the holy Spirit I believe if the creater of the universe wanted us to have a book this would be it of course I can't prove this but its my belief.
I love my KJV Scofield Reference Bible, but would never rate it as perfect. In fact I have found various errors when compared in a concordance.
Quote
The bible is the only yard stick we have to check what others say we have nothing else but I believe we should respect what others say.
But none of us really and truly use the bible as our yardstick, do we. We think we do, but its invariably our personal opinion of the bible that we use, or someone else's opinion.
That opinion is governed by many things including tradition etc.
Mark7v13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Thus two or three people can read the same verse, and come out with two or three completely different opinions of what it tells us.
Quote
Not sure what your point is with the disciple Jesus loved can you explain.
Jesus made a simple statement about that man, and then the other disciples completely mangled what Jesus meant by those words, wrongly proclaiming that he would never die.
So if the disciples get it so wrong when they are with Jesus himself, its not surprising that 2000 years later we might misinterpret the words of scripture.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 11:52:00 AM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply I am always ready to fight for the word of truth with the sword of truth as I understand it at the present time but that can change.

With this in mind how do you understand these verses.

.
 13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: note (Compare)

 14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it 


What I was thinking there are so many different interpretations of scripture how can we know which one is right.

What I am thinking dose everyone have his own narrow gate to find are we all lead down different narrow paths through the scriptures.

Until we enter through the narrow gate and realise what its all about the cross of Christ and all it stands for.
On this we all agree its very rarely discussed we tend to discuss and debate everything else around this central fact.

So is the scriptures designed by God to lead us by different paths to Christ.

As for the one Jesus loved I have wondered about this a few times traditionally it is said to be John but I have wondered could it be Judus after all he was the biggest sinner and Christ showed his love for sinners by dying for them.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline John

Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 02:34:04 PM »
Dave,
          you are mixing up the way of salvation, whuich is through faith in Jesus with the process God sends us through inorder that we come to faith in Jesus.

The first is fixed but the second is as varried as we all are.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The scriptures are not the final arbiter
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 05:06:58 PM »
Dave,
          you are mixing up the way of salvation, whuich is through faith in Jesus with the process God sends us through inorder that we come to faith in Jesus.

The first is fixed but the second is as varried as we all are.

Hi John
Thanks for that reply of course you are quite right faith in Jesus and everything he has done for us is the only way to salvation what I was trying to show was how we can arrive at that faith.
we all travel on different paths through the scriptures and when we enter the narrow gate we realise what it means to have faith in Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave