Author Topic: we shall remember  (Read 99 times)

Description: the futility of war

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Offline Cariad

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Re: we shall remember
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:50 PM »
Hello Dave,

Looking at the subtitle of this thread, 'the futility of war',  I think of the many Mothers and Fathers who have lost sons and daughters in the conflicts during the years of my lifetime alone, since the end of world war II, and of the pain they still endure at the loss of their loved ones.  How do you think they feel to be told that the loss was futile, that it had no purpose, even if there appears to be no positive outcome, it has to be believed that their sacrifice was worth something.

I hate war, I want to love my enemies and do good to those who despitefully use me, too, but if ISIS were threatening the lives of my children I would take up arms to prevent them. It is one thing laying down one's own life, but to stand by and witness the mowing down of the lives of others, on a principle, is quite another.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline John

Re: we shall remember
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 05:32:47 PM »
Dave,
        "that all killing is wrong and against Christ laws of love "
Both the bible and our countries laws distinguishes between murder and manslaughter.
One is deliberate and against the law, while the other is accidental.
Furtyher more the state is allowed to execute criminals.

The command to 'turn the other cheek' is given to Christians, but not to states, kingdoms etc.

You have the freedom of concsion to decide for yourself. A state church or a demonination can givesupport to those who act in our defence and it is Christians shame that we are not prepared to act in defance of the law when Jesus is mocked ( a red herring ) but are we just pasifly sitting waiting Jesus's return.

Online davetaff

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Re: we shall remember
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 01:24:47 PM »
Hi
Thank you all for your replies maybe the answer lies in forgiveness.

.     Forgiveness
14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

 15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, (Compare)

 56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 57  Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

 58  And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

 59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

 60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep




Hi
From the above verses we see that our forgiveness of those who trespass against us is essential if we are to be forgiven.
We also see that Stephen had vision's of heaven before he died as have others but it dose not mean they went to heaven.
The point I'm trying to make is all those who have visions of heaven eventually die here on earth and are buried and sleep in the earth.

In a previous post Frances has used conflicts in the OT to make the point that wars can be approved by God of course the OT is full of horrific stories from the flood and right the way through the history of Israel.

But with the coming of our Lord things changed he did not come as a great military leader that Israel were expecting.
He came as a lamb to the slaughter he came as a humble servant.

So is God trying to tell us something that wars and violence don't work.
But Love and forgiveness will work is this not what we are looking forward to a new heaven and earth where every one loves one another.
Our Lord had all the heavenly Host at his disposal he need not have gone to the cross but he did not use this option he went to the cross and opened not his mouth.
I believe this is a clear message that wars and violence is not the way but Love is.

Love and Peace
Dave