Author Topic: 'Reverend'  (Read 78 times)

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Offline Cariad

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'Reverend'
« on: November 06, 2017, 03:38:09 PM »
'He sent redemption unto His people:
He hath commanded His covenant for ever:
holy and reverend is His name.'

(Psa 111:9)

Psalm 111:9, is the only occurrence of the word reverend, meaning to revere.
Why is it that the Christian clergy/ministers are given this honorary title?

In Christ Jesus
Cariad









Offline Maggy

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 05:50:37 PM »
Is it that many clergymen were the younger sons of noble families. The eldest inherits; the second goes into the army and the third son goes into the church.
They were often poor but were respected by their local communities because of their parentage and chosen profession.
Maggy

Offline davetaff

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 06:11:55 PM »
'He sent redemption unto His people:
He hath commanded His covenant for ever:
holy and reverend is His name.'

(Psa 111:9)

Psalm 111:9, is the only occurrence of the word reverend, meaning to revere.
Why is it that the Christian clergy/ministers are given this honorary title?

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi
The meaning of the word is


Original: ירא

Transliteration: yârê'

Phonetic: yaw-ray'

BDB Definition:

to fear, revere, be afraid
(Qal)
to fear, be afraid
to stand in awe of, be awed
to fear, reverence, honour, respect
(Niphal)
to be fearful, be dreadful, be feared
to cause astonishment and awe, be held in awe
to inspire reverence or godly fear or awe
(Piel) to make afraid, terrify
(TWOT) to shoot, pour
Origin: a primitive root

TWOT entry: 907,908

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: A primitive root; to fear ; morally to revere ; causatively to frighten: - affright, be (make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing

The question is is the minister God fearing or should we fear the minister.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 10:45:38 PM »
"Reverend is His name" makes no sense to me.

The NIV has "holy and awesome is His name".

I have always believed that 'reverend' originally meant 'worthy of respect' (and my dictionary confirms that - it's a Latin word meaning 'deserving reverence'). These days it's just a title, like 'Sir' or 'Mr'. I wouldn't connect it with the psalm.
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline francis drake

Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 09:05:45 AM »
"Reverend is His name" makes no sense to me.

The NIV has "holy and awesome is His name".

I have always believed that 'reverend' originally meant 'worthy of respect' (and my dictionary confirms that - it's a Latin word meaning 'deserving reverence'). These days it's just a title, like 'Sir' or 'Mr'. I wouldn't connect it with the psalm.

The average man in the street deserves more respect than most so called "reverends" today.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Cariad

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 09:16:42 AM »
"Reverend is His name" makes no sense to me.

The NIV has "holy and awesome is His name".

I have always believed that 'reverend' originally meant 'worthy of respect' (and my dictionary confirms that - it's a Latin word meaning 'deserving reverence'). These days it's just a title, like 'Sir' or 'Mr'. I wouldn't connect it with the psalm.

Hello @Deborah,

I quoted the Psalm simply to illustrate the fact that the word, Reverend, is used only once in God's Word, and then in relation to God.
The Strong's reference No. is H3372, and the Hebrew word from which it was translated is, 'yare', and is of frequent use in Scripture, but translated in different ways, as @davetaff has shown.

A primitive root: = 'to fear'
morally: - to revere;
causatively: - to frighten
Translated:  affright, be (or make) afraid, dread (-ful), (put in) fear (-ful, -fully, -ing). (be had in) reverence (-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

* I know the meaning of the word reverend, my question is regarding why ministers or clergy are given this title at all? No man can demand respect, surely, except as an outward show in regard to their office, for it is something which has to be earned. 

* The office of a minister of the gospel is one which should be held in reverence, yes: for it is God whom he serves; but most of all by the one who holds it, surely;  for the responsibility he has toward the One Whom he seeks to serve is awesome.

* Regarding the public to whom he ministers, then the quality of his ministry, his life and witness, is what should be the indicator as to whether he is deserving of the reverence his office demands or not. 

* Simply being a minister of the gospel itself, or serving God in any capacity should be honour enough, without having the title 'Reverend' attached to it.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline Deborah

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 09:31:55 AM »

* I know the meaning of the word reverend, my question is regarding why ministers or clergy are given this title at all? No man can demand respect, surely, except as an outward show in regard to their office, for it is something which has to be earned.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Surely people are entitled to respect on account of the office that they hold? Shouldn't children - as a general rule - respect their parents? Shouldn't pupils respect their teachers? Shouldn't employees respect their employers? Shouldn't we all respect those who govern us? And God's word tells us to respect those who have authority within the church as well. People can forfeit that respect by abusing their privilege, but they shouldn't have to work to earn it from scratch in the first place.

'Reverend' as a title probably is anachronistic in this day and age - but if it were to be abolished how are people to identify those who are properly trained, appointed and ordained as church leaders? We'd have to invent another equally in/appropriate title to take its place!

Quote
I quoted the Psalm simply to illustrate the fact that the word, Reverend, is used only once in God's Word, and then in relation to God.
The Strong's reference No. is H3372, and the Hebrew word from which it was translated is, 'yare', and is of frequent use in Scripture, but translated in different ways, as @davetaff has shown.
That just makes me wonder why the KJV translators chose to use the word 'reverend' at all, in just that one place. Most other translations don't. It's an oddity.
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline Cariad

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Re: 'Reverend'
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 09:56:40 AM »
Surely people are entitled to respect on account of the office that they hold? Shouldn't children - as a general rule - respect their parents? Shouldn't pupils respect their teachers? Shouldn't employees respect their employers? Shouldn't we all respect those who govern us? And God's word tells us to respect those who have authority within the church as well. People can forfeit that respect by abusing their privilege, but they shouldn't have to work to earn it from scratch in the first place.

'Reverend' as a title probably is anachronistic in this day and age - but if it were to be abolished how are people to identify those who are properly trained, appointed and ordained as church leaders? We'd have to invent another equally in/appropriate title to take its place!
That just makes me wonder why the KJV translators chose to use the word 'reverend' at all, in just that one place. Most other translations don't. It's an oddity.

Hello Deborah,

Yes, respect is due to the office, regardless of what that office is.  However, it is not necessary to be accompanied by an epithet, attached to the person holding that office, which in and of itself requires a form of reverence.

Paul is an example of one who did not take his position as a called 'Apostle' lightly, he held it in reverence, and sought by word and deed to be worthy of it, but had to defend his position on a daily basis before the public he ministered to.  He did not have the title, 'Reverend,' to hide behind; and worked as a weaver of cloth for tent making to earn money to pay his own way rather than take from those whom he served, even though he acknowledged that a workman was worthy of his hire.  He earned whatever respect he received by his daily life and witness, for he lived to the glory of God.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad