Author Topic: Letter to the Hebrews  (Read 4055 times)

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Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2018, 02:23:07 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply yes we can go through v8-12 in detail I will post the whole section but take it a little at a time if you have a better suggestion please feel free to post it.

Heb 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away   
 

V8 Here we see God finding fault with Israel his chosen people I think the covenant here is a reference to obedience to the law at that time there was no forgiveness for sin only the consequence's of breaking the law which was death we are told in another place if you broke any of the laws you were guilty of breaking the whole law.
This can remind us of Adam and the tree of knowledge that disobeying Gods commands can lead to expulsion from paradise and death.
We can see Israels expulsion from there Garden paradise when they were taken into Babylon But God did bring them back to the promised land maybe a foreshadowing of the resurrection.
then when they crucified our Lord Israel died cast into darkness but they will be raised up in the last days.

Love and Peace
Dave 
   

I think we have to take verses 8 & 9 together to make sense of verse 8.
Quote
V8 Here we see God finding fault with Israel his chosen people I think the covenant here is a reference to obedience to the law at that time there was no forgiveness for sin only the consequence's of breaking the law which was death we are told in another place if you broke any of the laws you were guilty of breaking the whole law.
Not exactly - "the covenant" is something very specific. It was the solemn agreement that God made with Israel at Mount Sinai - that He would be their God, and they would be His people and would obey His Law. His intention was that they would be His "kingdom of priests and a holy nation."(Exodus 19:5,6)
v9 But it all went badly wrong. Within just a few weeks, the Israelites were worshipping a golden calf at the very foot of God's holy mountain. And that was just the first of countless times that they broke the covenant. God did forgive them, and kept on forgiving them (Yes, even the old covenant allowed for the forgiveness of sins!), but they never changed their ways. And so in the end, as you say, He "turned away from them" (this is what "regarded them not" means) and sent them into exile.
But at the same time as the Exile, Jeremiah prophesied the making of a new and completely different kind of covenant, which is the prophecy quoted here.
The inadequacies of the old covenant were not the fault of the covenant itself; the problem lay in human nature, and specifically with Israel's hard-heartedness and unbelief. The benefits of the covenant were conditional upon obedience - and law cannot make people good. It has been tried, and found wanting. This is why the new covenant was necessary.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2018, 04:00:05 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply yes it is difficult to split these verses up they hang together so well don't they there is a richness and depth so easy to go of on a tangent don't you think.

Heb 8:9  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
     


As we have seen the first covenant was dependent on compliance to Gods commands from the building of the tabernacle to keeping his laws and statutes with the Law most of us think of the ten commandments but there was much more to it that that as I understand it there was over 600 different laws and what they all were designed to do was to live a fair and peaceful life with our neighbour.
Our lord reduced these 600 odd laws down to these two.

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.     


The law still remains Our Lord is telling us we can comply with the whole law through love.

V10 Now we come to the promise of the new covenant this was brought in by our Lord Jesus what dose he mean when he says with the house of Israel is he alluding to what Paul says somewhere else about the gentiles being grafted into Israel.
I believe that when he says about putting the laws into their minds and heart is a way of telling us about the Holy Spirit being given to believers at Pentecost.
When we receive the Spirit we receive Gods Love and we should share that Love with our fellow man.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2018, 10:01:52 PM »

As we have seen the first covenant was dependent on compliance to Gods commands from the building of the tabernacle to keeping his laws and statutes with the Law most of us think of the ten commandments but there was much more to it that that as I understand it there was over 600 different laws and what they all were designed to do was to live a fair and peaceful life with our neighbour.
Our lord reduced these 600 odd laws down to these two.

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.     


The law still remains Our Lord is telling us we can comply with the whole law through love.



These two commandments do summarise the Law - but 'love' is a vague term that can mean many things (many people justify adultery because it's an expression of 'love'!). So more specific laws were required to teach the Israelites how to love God and their neighbours.

Quote
V10 Now we come to the promise of the new covenant this was brought in by our Lord Jesus what dose he mean when he says with the house of Israel is he alluding to what Paul says somewhere else about the gentiles being grafted into Israel.
I believe that when he says about putting the laws into their minds and heart is a way of telling us about the Holy Spirit being given to believers at Pentecost.
When we receive the Spirit we receive Gods Love and we should share that Love with our fellow man.
The 'house of Israel' refers to all God's people (by Jeremiah's time only the tribe of Judah was left, so it gives a hint that the new covenant would not be only for the Jews).
And yes, we have to be 'grafted in' to Israel to join the new covenant.

The old covenant could only deal with external things. The Law was inscribed on stone tablets; it didn't get inside people's hearts. As you say, that's what the Holy Spirit does. He gives us the desire and the power to obey God's commands; and because He is God (God inside us, so to speak), our relationship with God is much closer and more personal than was possible for anyone under the old covenant.

Thanks be to God!
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2018, 01:44:16 AM »
Yes living  under difffering covenants......


Yet the heart never changed...

Although it did - according to scripture.....


Once upon a time man's heart was harder - and will be... and is...


Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2018, 03:53:06 PM »
Hi Deborah and Tes
Thanks for your replies

Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.   


V11 I was wondering about this verse when it says we will not need to teach our neighbour and brother do you think this can be a reference to the millenium after all when he sits in the new Jerusalem as King of Kings everyone will know who he is.
or is it jest the gift of the Spirit but then this is only given to those who believe.
V12 Who will he be merciful  to not to believers surely they have been forgiven they are his body if this is right then it must be unbelievers.
Dose the new covenant include the millenium.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2018, 10:23:09 AM »
Hi Deborah and Tes
Thanks for your replies

Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.   


V11 I was wondering about this verse when it says we will not need to teach our neighbour and brother do you think this can be a reference to the millenium after all when he sits in the new Jerusalem as King of Kings everyone will know who he is.
or is it jest the gift of the Spirit but then this is only given to those who believe.
V12 Who will he be merciful  to not to believers surely they have been forgiven they are his body if this is right then it must be unbelievers.
Dose the new covenant include the millenium.

Love and Peace
Dave   

This passage is all about the new covenant, and the blessings of the new covenant apply only to those who belong to it - not to everyone! So v11 is referring to the gift of the Spirit. Note that verse 12 begins with the little word 'for'. It's because we have been cleansed by the blood of Christ that the Spirit is able to live inside us. God's mercy comes first; that's the reason why we can be forgiven and become members of the new covenant. "Once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy." (I Peter 2:10)

v11 The New Covenant makes obsolete all priestly mediation. Israel's relationship with God was corporate and ritualistic; but ours is personal and intimate. Each and every individual can enjoy direct communication with God. This is why the new covenant is so much more effective in making us holy!
v12 All this becomes possible only when the problem of sin has been fully and finally dealt with.
Thus this quote from Jeremiah introduces the key central message of the letter to the Hebrews: the finality of Christ's sacrifice for sins (more of this in chapters 9 & 10).
v13 The Scripture itself clearly implies that the old covenant was never intended to be permanent; it would eventually be replaced. And once the new covenant was 'up and running', the old one was no longer needed and would not continue for long. The destruction of the Temple in AD70 (probably not long after this letter was written) was to set the final seal on its disappearance. The old is now dead and gone for ever; but it has been replaced by something far better!

Quote
Dose the new covenant include the millenium.
That depends on what you believe about the millennium! Personally, I believe that the millennium is now; it's the age when Christ reigns in heaven and we are (spiritually) seated with Him in the heavenly places. So I would say that the new covenant is the millennium. But lots of Christians would disagree with me.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2018, 05:16:21 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thanks for the reply interesting reading I'm sure many others found as interesting as me.

Heb 9:1  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Heb 9:3  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
     


Here we have a brief description of the first tabernacle which is a pattern of the true tabernacle we see that it was divided into two separate parts I think this mirrors the OT and the NT in a way.
Israel did not have access to the holiest of all the inner sanctuary it was cut of by the vail that separated the two chambers of the tabernacle.
But when our lord was crucified the vail was rent in two and we got access to the holiest of all what dose that mean I believe it means we have access to God the father through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yes through Jesus we enter the inner sanctuary how wonderful is that.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2018, 08:28:34 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thanks for the reply interesting reading I'm sure many others found as interesting as me.

Heb 9:1  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Heb 9:3  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
     


Here we have a brief description of the first tabernacle which is a pattern of the true tabernacle we see that it was divided into two separate parts I think this mirrors the OT and the NT in a way.
Israel did not have access to the holiest of all the inner sanctuary it was cut of by the vail that separated the two chambers of the tabernacle.
But when our lord was crucified the vail was rent in two and we got access to the holiest of all what dose that mean I believe it means we have access to God the father through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yes through Jesus we enter the inner sanctuary how wonderful is that.

Love and Peace
Dave

I don't see how the two parts of the Tabernacle relate to the OT and the NT.
Israel didn't even have access to the outer sanctuary - only the priests could go inside (we'll come to that in verse 6).
But the rest of what you say is spot on. The writer of the letter says so himself in chapter 10.

v1 Under the old covenant, worship was strictly regulated and every detail of the liturgy was prescribed. There was a sanctuary - a place where God 'lived' - but it was of course really part of the material world.
v2 This sanctuary, the Tabernacle, was divided into two rooms by a heavy curtain (the 'veil' - but the word 'veil' makes it sound as if it was flimsy and semi-transparent, which was not the case). The first, larger room contained the Bread of the Presence and the lampstand. I believe these represented the Son (the Bread of Life) and the Spirit, but that's a bit of a diversion here.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)