Author Topic: Letter to the Hebrews  (Read 222 times)

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Offline Cariad

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2017, 09:15:35 AM »
@davetaff
@Deborah

It is interesting to note that the words quoted from Psalm 2:7, in Heb.1:5:-

'Thou art My Son:
this day have I Begotton Thee'


When compared with Acts 13:33 (where it is again quoted) reveals that the act of begetting (or giving birth) refers to Christ's resurrection: when the Son became the glorified Head of a new order of beings, therefore the 'Firstborn' of a new creation (Rom 8:29; Col.1:15).

[Compare Heb.5:5; Rom.1:4; 1 Cor.15:45 (& chapter)]

So, Heb.1:6, refers to the bringing in again of The Christ, at His second coming, see 1Thess.4:14: it is then that the quotation from Deut.32:43 will come to pass, which is quoted in that 6th verse:-

'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'

Then also will be fulfilled the words of Heb 1:7, which quotes from Psa.104:4:-

'Who makes His angels spirits,
and His ministers a flame of fire'


Heb.1:8-9, also finds it's fulfillment in that future day. (Psa.2:9 & Rev.2:27), in a glorified Christ, no longer in His Body of humiliation and weakness, adopted in order to redeem, but in His glorified body of resurrection power and might.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad
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Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2017, 02:30:54 PM »
@davetaff
@Deborah

It is interesting to note that the words quoted from Psalm 2:7, in Heb.1:5:-

'Thou art My Son:
this day have I Begotton Thee'


When compared with Acts 13:33 (where it is again quoted) reveals that the act of begetting (or giving birth) refers to Christ's resurrection: when the Son became the glorified Head of a new order of beings, therefore the 'Firstborn' of a new creation (Rom 8:29; Col.1:15).

[Compare Heb.5:5; Rom.1:4; 1 Cor.15:45 (& chapter)]

So, Heb.1:6, refers to the bringing in again of The Christ, at His second coming, see 1Thess.4:14: it is then that the quotation from Deut.32:43 will come to pass, which is quoted in that 6th verse:-

'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'

Then also will be fulfilled the words of Heb 1:7, which quotes from Psa.104:4:-

'Who makes His angels spirits,
and His ministers a flame of fire'


Heb.1:8-9, also finds it's fulfillment in that future day. (Psa.2:9 & Rev.2:27), in a glorified Christ, no longer in His Body of humiliation and weakness, adopted in order to redeem, but in His glorified body of resurrection power and might.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Chris
Thank you for the above post very informative if I understand it correctly it is saying that there is a double fulfilment of the verses quoted Christs first birth by Mary then by his death and resurrection he is reborn then raised to the right hand of God the father.

I thought we could look at the next few verses but if you have anymore insights into what's gone  before please feel free to let us know.

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
   


The first of these verses comes from   Psa_45:6-7 and the last three from  Psa_102:25-27 it is wonderful how far in advance we are told these things.

we are also told here there is a time limit we are told here that the lord created everything and we are also told there will be an end and the world will be changed there will be a new heaven and earth let us prey it will not be to far away.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2017, 03:30:03 PM »
v8-12
Psalms 45 & 102 are interesting because at first reading they don't seem to be prophetic of Jesus at all.

But in Psalm 45 a king (distinct from God) is being addressed as God!
And in the last few verses of Psalm 102 (in the Hebrew), God is addressing another 'person' who is eternal and who created the universe!

None of this would make sense unless Jesus, the King, is also the eternal Creator God.
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 02:39:51 PM »
v8-12
Psalms 45 & 102 are interesting because at first reading they don't seem to be prophetic of Jesus at all.

But in Psalm 45 a king (distinct from God) is being addressed as God!
And in the last few verses of Psalm 102 (in the Hebrew), God is addressing another 'person' who is eternal and who created the universe!

None of this would make sense unless Jesus, the King, is also the eternal Creator God.

Hi Deborah
thank you for your reply I would jest like to ask I have always thought it is God the father who is the creator of all things in heaven and earth and he created them through Christ as we see in the following text

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
   


or am I misunderstanding this verse the way I read it is the father used the son to create everything.
sorry to be a pain.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 01:49:08 AM »
Interesting subject in this topic..

But do not forget the spoken word can also be The "Holy Spirit,as the breath of God [Ruach]"

We have here -  The Trinity creating [yet not all things are known by Jesus [as a man] "as to the time and date of return/or end.

Yet the Holy Spirit searches God- it is soemthing beyond our comprehension / as Jesius was around in the beginning and is seen as the active word.

Yet God hovered over the waters of the deep and Jesus was not seen [He was like a parable or a hidden meaning -until He was born / or born in our hearts NOW]

You might also suggest the Holy Spirit created as He was the breath of God/ but Jesus was the action that made it/ John 1:1,3 - Colossians 1:16.

In our future or in God's Now - Jesus no longer  needs to create new days in eternity ! [As He no longer needs to renew/save/restore]]

Here God "The Father" is our light .


Takes us back to Will the role of the Trinity change on the new earth ?


In this topic the Son will no longer be the Groom. to mention a few differences - the Father will be our Light, etc

The Garden of Eden is not even the same as the Trinity changers it's role, "from earth to heavenly future"


As it is nol onger Adam and Eve in the natural   to fall - but multitudes in a new garden with new homes / where Jesus wil rule with a rod Revelation 2:27 - being that we are in Christ and Judge with Him. [future but not eternal]

Yet in a way it is heavenly "as those who are not there have already been Judged" and we may be be part of that Judgement"

We are skiipping between past/present and future and through time and no time, [as God lives outside of time] which is why the scriptures speak to us today [as it is a living Word] Father / Son and Holy Spirit]

This is where the Eagles soar on the ruach winds / invisible winds/ hence the types and shadows of eagles =  Isaiah 40:31

Here we reach new heights and soar - while resting in him  -  with ease - not depending on our strength or the strength of our wings .

Here we take steps up or go down steps and as our  ladder extends to heaven / depending on our repsonse / how we step / see :
The Beatitudes

[ This is our "BE - ATTITUDES - NOW ATTITUDES [Forget about past - as Jesus obviously did - here parts of the  past are forgotten/ forgiven"as if God had erased parts of life "just as if it never happened /or just as if I never sinned =  Justification ] You cannot do this.

Attitudes of the heart have a big bearing on this - Luke 18:13 never mind his life or his teachings - remind yourself of his attitude at this moment - see : Psalm 25:11

Paul was recreated from a Pharisee to a Christian [Christ -in] who did that ? from a killer to a changer / a new attitude/ Paul now writes many gosples amd letters through his ordeals and in a sense he beats his chest/ as he runs . [soars]

It is just as if Paul had never sinned ..... [Paul now begins to plant - [yet he does not do it but "The father/ the Son and the Holy Spirit] you might suggest  that Paul was overtaken  [by the Holy Spirit/Christ] - being blinded yet given revelations/sight]


It is as if God blots out times in our lives - and we begin our ruach journey -  much like Adam and Eve in the natural - where God acted in the supernatural / where they were sent into exile / yet flew like eagles. [if they had not then none of us would now exist - as the ned would have finished with the book of Genesis and Adam and Eve would have ceased to exist.


So in this short post we have moved through many places and have entered many lives.





https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=6726.0
https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=9904.msg66914#msg66914

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 09:42:04 AM »
Hi Deborah
thank you for your reply I would jest like to ask I have always thought it is God the father who is the creator of all things in heaven and earth and he created them through Christ as we see in the following text

Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
   


or am I misunderstanding this verse the way I read it is the father used the son to create everything.
sorry to be a pain.

Love and Peace
Dave

Dave, look at Genesis 1. God creates the universe by speaking His Word. He says, "Let there be..." and things happen to make it so.
Now look at John 1 (and I see many parallels between John's Gospel and Hebrews): "In the beginning was the Word... Through Him all things were made... The Word became flesh."
God's Word is Jesus, the Son. I don't think that "using the Son" is a good way of putting it (it makes it sound as if the Son was a tool or implement!), but God definitely created the world through the Son. God is the Creator, but the Son is also involved in creation (and the Holy Spirit too, as Genesis 1:2 tells us).
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 10:04:49 AM »
Hi Tes
Thank you for your reply not sure I understand it all I do feel it may derail the thread but that's my fault to asking the question so I hope you don't mind if we return to the thread.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 10:19:59 AM »
Dave, look at Genesis 1. God creates the universe by speaking His Word. He says, "Let there be..." and things happen to make it so.
Now look at John 1 (and I see many parallels between John's Gospel and Hebrews): "In the beginning was the Word... Through Him all things were made... The Word became flesh."
God's Word is Jesus, the Son. I don't think that "using the Son" is a good way of putting it (it makes it sound as if the Son was a tool or implement!), but God definitely created the world through the Son. God is the Creator, but the Son is also involved in creation (and the Holy Spirit too, as Genesis 1:2 tells us).

Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply dose clarify things for me so let's return to the subject of the thread.

.  13  But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

 14  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?     


These are the last two verses of Hebrews 1 where the writer points out very clearly the superiority of the Son over every thing else in creation and sits at the right hand of God.

This brings us to the end of Hebrews 1 if anyone would like to go over any of the above before we continue to Hebrews 2 please feel free.

Love and Peace
Dave