Author Topic: Letter to the Hebrews  (Read 10580 times)

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Offline Deborah

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2018, 05:30:18 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I do look forward to them always enlightening

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
   


I think these three verses go together not easy to seperate they are a warning of falling away but is it really impossible to return to God through Christ I was thinking of this verse from Isaiah.

Isa 55:7  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
     


Where he says return seams to mean as a second time which seams to contadict what Paul is saying that it's impossible to return.
Or is it because those who have recieved the Holy Spirit and rejected it cannot recieve it again I dont think Israel in general recieved the Spirit but that the Spirit spoke through the prophets.

Love and Peace
Dave

This section of the letter is notoriously difficult to interpret, and Christians have been arguing over it for centuries, Dave. It's part of a common problem in interpreting Scripture, when what is written in one place seems to contradict what's written somewhere else. So we have to look at it very very carefully and make sure that what we take from it harmonises with what we read elsewhere.

One principle to bear in mind is that the writers of the Bible tend to state things in a very black-and-white manner, either in one direction or another, rather than explaining the various shades of grey that exist. If you take both extremes into account, you hopefully end up holding them in a kind of balanced tension, so that they modify each other. For example: the Law says "honour your parents", and Jesus confirms that this is important (Mark 7:9-13). And yet elsewhere He tells us that we have to "hate" our parents in order to follow Him (Luke 14:26)! What this means is that we should normally love and honour our parents - unless they try to stand between us and Jesus. One passage speaks to us as the general rule; the other speaks to certain people in exceptional situations.

Now to Hebrews 6:4-6...
There are many passages in Scripture that assure us that if we belong to Jesus we cannot be lost (e.g. John 10:28; I Peter 1:4,5). But this passage suggests that it is possible to lose our salvation. The comforting passages are for those believers who are fearful and lacking in confidence. The warning passage is for those who are becoming complacent. It's like we are walking along a coastal path above a cliff. If we heed the warning signs and keep well away from the edge, we shall be perfectly safe; if we do something stupid like dance up and down right on the edge, it will be our own fault if we fall! If we are committed to Jesus and following Him, we don't need to worry about losing our salvation because He will keep us safe; but if we think (for example) that we can indulge in sin we may find ourselves getting uncomfortably close to the danger zone. Remember Judas!

So... the writer is not talking about a purely hypothetical situation. It is possible to fall so far away from Christ as to be beyond rescue. And there are people who appear to be Christians: they've heard the gospel, have witnessed the spiritual power of a new life in Christ, and may well be baptised church members of good standing - and yet they are not truly born again. They have tasted Christianity, but have never fully committed themselves; although touched by the Spirit, they have not been transformed. Sooner or later they start to drift; they don't turn at some point and come back but become hardened rebels who reject everything Christ stands for and hold Him up to scorn and ridicule. This is the point of no return: they have reached a state in which repentance (and therefore forgiveness) are impossible.

But these are extreme (and rare) cases. They do happen - I personally know of people who were apparently committed Christians for years and then suddenly went 'off the rails' and abandoned both Jesus and the Church (usually this involved committing adultery and divorcing their spouse). While we never know who's reached the point of no return and who hasn't, we need to realise that such a point does exist.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2018, 02:41:30 PM »
Hi Deborah
I Thank you so much for that explanation

Heb 6:7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
     


Jest two verses this time like you say this sections not easy it seams the writer has gone of track a little but then I was reading Deuteronomy this morning and came to this.

Deu 32:1  Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
Deu 32:2  My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Deu 32:3  Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.   


As we see the rain here is likened to the word of God watering the earth bringing forth a crop of believers is this the kind of thing the writer was eluding to when he said they should be teachers by now but were still babes.

But the same rain can bring forth thorns and briers I take it if misuse the heavenly rain.

Love and Peace
Dave 

   








 

Offline Deborah

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2018, 05:42:04 PM »
Hi Deborah
I Thank you so much for that explanation

Heb 6:7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
     


Jest two verses this time like you say this sections not easy it seams the writer has gone of track a little but then I was reading Deuteronomy this morning and came to this.

Deu 32:1  Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
Deu 32:2  My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Deu 32:3  Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.   


As we see the rain here is likened to the word of God watering the earth bringing forth a crop of believers is this the kind of thing the writer was eluding to when he said they should be teachers by now but were still babes.

But the same rain can bring forth thorns and briers I take it if misuse the heavenly rain.

Love and Peace
Dave 

No, he hasn't gone off track; he's giving some explanation to help us understand verses 4-6.
v7 God's grace is distributed liberally; but only those who respond to it will receive His blessing. Both the good land and the bad land receive the same rain. The input of the word and the Spirit should produce good fruit in our lives. But God's people have always had a choice, whether to respond positively or negatively (Deuteronomy 11:26-28). Those who despise God's grace despite being 'members' of the Church can expect only judgement and destruction.
v8 Whatever promise the bad land originally shows, all the effort and resources poured into it turn out in the end to be wasted.
If the good seed of the word never takes root (as in the parable of the sower - Luke 8:13,14), then these people were never genuine Christians at all. To summarise: a lifetime of religious experience is worthless if there is no fruit resulting from it.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2018, 11:33:31 AM »
Hi
Putting the thread back on track moving on with this lovely epistle

.  9  But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 11  And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

 12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises   


In this section we have words of encouragement as opposed to warnings showing that God always remembers our works of love and our support for his church and word.
So let us continue to spread the word and support his church which is his body by encouraging one another.
And let us do it with Love loving one another from the heart let love over ride our difference's.

Love and Peace
Dave



Offline Deborah

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2018, 03:45:28 PM »
Hi
Putting the thread back on track moving on with this lovely epistle

Agreed!

Quote
.  9  But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 11  And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

 12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises   


In this section we have words of encouragement as opposed to warnings showing that God always remembers our works of love and our support for his church and word.
So let us continue to spread the word and support his church which is his body by encouraging one another.
And let us do it with Love loving one another from the heart let love over ride our difference's.

Love and Peace
Dave

v9 The writer has no particular reason to suspect that any of his readers are in such extreme danger.
v10 They do have fruitful lives. They love both God and their fellow believers; their faith and love are manifested in all kinds of good deeds. "Anyone who loves their brother and sister is living in the light." (I John 2:10)
And God will not fail to take note. (Matthew 10:42) All this is evidence that God's grace is at work in them.
v11 They can therefore be reassured that they are in a state of salvation; they just need to stay there. "We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realised."
v12 For this they need faith in God's promises and patience to wait for their fulfilment. These are our 'prophylaxis' against apostasy. For God's promises are utterly reliable - but action on our part is required if we are to benefit from them. As the Israelites discovered when they entered Canaan under Joshua, our inheritance has to be claimed (and fought for); we can't just sit back and expect it to fall into our laps.
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2018, 04:19:35 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply uplifting as usual

Heb 6:13  For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14  Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb 6:16  For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
   


 V 13-14   Here we have a wonderful example of God promising and we know from History that God has kept that promise 100% as we see through the history of Israel his chosen people although they have had a hard road to travel they will be saved in the last days.
V15 Patience is something we all need to learn all Gods promises will happen we need to have faith and believe he will not let us down.
V16-17 as we see here God confirmed his promises with an oath all Gods promises will come to pass according to his word.

Love and Peace
Dave       

Offline Deborah

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2018, 05:41:27 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply uplifting as usual

Heb 6:13  For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14  Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb 6:16  For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
   


 V 13-14   Here we have a wonderful example of God promising and we know from History that God has kept that promise 100% as we see through the history of Israel his chosen people although they have had a hard road to travel they will be saved in the last days.
V15 Patience is something we all need to learn all Gods promises will happen we need to have faith and believe he will not let us down.
V16-17 as we see here God confirmed his promises with an oath all Gods promises will come to pass according to his word.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Now we have a short digression on the subject of God's promises - and how utterly reliable they are.
v13,14 God's great promise to Abraham is the supreme example, both of the validity of God's promises and of the perseverance necessary to actually receive what is promised.
v15 Abraham had had to wait a very long time to see even the first step towards the fulfilment of the promise (which was of many descendants who would inherit the land of Canaan). When it was first made, its fulfilment seemed very unlikely because of Sarah's infertility. It must have seemed even more unlikely when God commanded Abraham to offer his promised son Isaac as a sacrifice. But he obeyed, and his experience should encourage us to trust in God also.

In Genesis 22:16-18, God took the unusual step of swearing an oath to Abraham. Why?
v16 Unreliable human beings certify their integrity by appealing to Someone of greater integrity and power - this is why we take legal oaths in the name of 'Almighty God'.
v17 God's faithfulness should be beyond question, but (as a concession to the fragility of our faith) He condescended to use the same method by adding an oath (sworn by Himself!) to His promise. This gave Abraham an even greater assurance - maximum assurance! - that the promise would finally be realised. As indeed it has... his physical descendants are now numbered in millions. But whether "they will be saved in the last days" is not covered by that particular promise (read Romans 9-11 - not all Abraham's descendants will be saved).
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." (II Corinthians 7:1)

Offline davetaff

Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2018, 02:31:19 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply to which I agree.

Heb 6:18  That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19  Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20  Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
 


V18 Yes we can be absolutely certain that God dose not lie every word we have from him in the scripture is true and will come to pass in the fullness of time the hope set before us to enter his eternal kingdom
v19 let us not abandon this hope but hold fast to it as a ship is held fast by its anchor let us hold fast to the hope set before us our hope is Jesus Christ who has entered behind the vail he is our anchor.
V20 Yes our Lord Jesus Christ has entered through the vail and sits at the right hand of God waiting for all his enemies to be made his footstool let us pray that day will soon come and let us pray for it Thy Kingdom come thy will be done we have the sure and certain promises of our God and we know this will happen.

Love and Peace
Dave