Author Topic: Letter to the Hebrews  (Read 2717 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2017, 02:28:07 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for your reply I take it from your post that that the man spoken of here is mankind I'm not to sure about that I feel the scripture is speaking of Christ.

Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10  For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
   


As we see here in Heb 2:8  here we see the supremacy of Christ he is over everything except the father of course we will have to wait for his return for this verse to become reality.

In  Heb 2:9 we see that it is Jesus who is made lower than the angels the reason being that angles cannot die so Christ had to come in human form so that he could die for the sins of the world.

it is in Heb 2:10 that we see the creator of all thing about to bring forth his crowning glory of creation the body of Christ through his sacrifice on the cross.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2017, 05:19:56 PM »
Psalm 8 is speaking of the human race in general ("mankind"), because it's referring to the creation of the human race in Genesis 1 - but there is a deeper meaning as well, because Jesus is now our representative just as Adam was. Which is what the writer of the letter goes on to point out in verses 8 & 9!

v8 Mankind muffed it; Adam rebelled and lost his authority (because it was derived from God). As a result, our powers are compromised and our role distorted. Creation remains in a state of semi-chaos, and the promise of the psalm appears to be unfulfilled.
v9 But God's purpose for mankind is beginning to find its fulfilment - in Jesus!
He was "made lower than the angels for a little while" - He took upon Himself all the limitations and frustrations that go with being truly human, even experiencing death (the ultimate expression of our powerlessness) in all its horror. But in dying, He has conquered death!

v10 This starts a new train of thought; it really belongs with the following verses.
It was always the intention of God, the Cause and the Reason for everything, to restore corrupted human beings to their proper glory (Romans 8:29). Christ's mission was to 'blaze a trail' through suffering to glory, forcing a path through where no-one had ever gone before. (and we can now follow Him, if we take the same route).
In what sense was Jesus "made perfect through what He suffered"? His perfection was not the perfection of innocence (of being untouched by suffering), nor a perfection attained by moral development (through undergoing the discipline of suffering), but the perfection of meeting all the necessary criteria for being our Saviour (by having experienced the suffering that is an inevitable part of the human condition).
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2017, 02:59:08 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for that lovely post well presented and a joy to read.

Heb 2:11  For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12  Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13  And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
   


Heb 2:11  Here we see Christ who sanctifies us and we who are sanctified are all one us in Christ and Christ in us how wonderful is that.

Heb 2:12   here we have Christ declaring the name of the father to us his brethren this he dose through the word of God.

Heb 2:13  I will put my trust in him the words from the cross come to mind " into thy hands I commit my spirit " and we are included we are his children his body.

 Heb 2:14  Is it not wonderful that our Lord became lower than the angles he became as we a human being of flesh and blood so that he could destroy the devil and in so doing destroy the sentence of death hanging over humanity.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 08:20:05 PM »
Hello again, Dave. Let's get back to the letter to the Hebrews!

v11,12 "Both the One who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters." Jesus assumed the very same nature as us. And because He suffered death as a genuine human being, He consecrated our human nature. So the outcome of His sufferings is the creation of a completely new, holy community ? the family of God. And Jesus, as a true elder brother, is still happy to consider Himself as ?one of us?!
v13 Like the prophet Isaiah (this verse is a quote from Isaiah 8:17,18), Jesus sets us an example of complete trust in God, in the face of rejection and opposition by those who should have been God?s people. In joining with Him, we are assured of both our present standing before God and our future destiny.

Verses 14 and 15 are one sentence, so it makes no sense to separate them.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2018, 02:22:44 PM »
Hello again, Dave. Let's get back to the letter to the Hebrews!

v11,12 "Both the One who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters." Jesus assumed the very same nature as us. And because He suffered death as a genuine human being, He consecrated our human nature. So the outcome of His sufferings is the creation of a completely new, holy community ? the family of God. And Jesus, as a true elder brother, is still happy to consider Himself as ?one of us?!
v13 Like the prophet Isaiah (this verse is a quote from Isaiah 8:17,18), Jesus sets us an example of complete trust in God, in the face of rejection and opposition by those who should have been God?s people. In joining with Him, we are assured of both our present standing before God and our future destiny.

Verses 14 and 15 are one sentence, so it makes no sense to separate them.

Hi Deborah and welcome back we have missed you.

Thank you for your reply to which I agree moving on to 14-16.

Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Yes our saviour became like us a man of flesh and blood his suffering and death were real showing his great Love for us and in so doing destroyed our enemy and his the devil.         
 
Heb 2:15  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

now we who believe have no fear of death we have past from death to life how wonderful is that we always have a wonderful future to look forward to   

Heb 2:16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
   


The seed of Abraham this takes us all the way back even to Genesis and has been an important part of scripture Christ is the promised seed that would come out of Israel.
and that seed was planted with the cross and has been growing ever since into a great and glorious tree which we call Christianity.

   


Love and Peace
Dave
   

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 02:19:40 PM »
Hi Deborah and welcome back we have missed you.

Thank you for your reply to which I agree moving on to 14-16.

Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Yes our saviour became like us a man of flesh and blood his suffering and death were real showing his great Love for us and in so doing destroyed our enemy and his the devil.         
 
Heb 2:15  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

now we who believe have no fear of death we have past from death to life how wonderful is that we always have a wonderful future to look forward to   

Heb 2:16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
   


The seed of Abraham this takes us all the way back even to Genesis and has been an important part of scripture Christ is the promised seed that would come out of Israel.
and that seed was planted with the cross and has been growing ever since into a great and glorious tree which we call Christianity.

   


Love and Peace
Dave
 

v14,15 This is a wonderful text, isn't it! It explains the reason for Jesus' Incarnation and the purpose of His mission. He "shared in our humanity", becoming a real, flesh-and-blood human being (John 1:14). He did not merely appear to be human; He was human.
This is of vital importance, because in His own divine nature the Son was immortal. Only by becoming human could He die - and so that was what He did, in order to save us. His crucifixion appeared to be an ignominious defeat. But it was precisely because He died in this way that death was overcome and Satan?s power was broken for ever. It is now Jesus, not Satan, who has authority over life and death (Revelation 1:17,18)!
The whole of human existence is overshadowed by death, and everyone has to find some way of coping with it. Many fear death and go to great lengths to avoid it; others live in denial. But Christ?s death has dealt with sin; and in the absence of sin, death is harmless (I Corinthians 15:56,57). The prison doors have been thrown open, and the slaves have been set free!

v16 Note that there is no redeemer for fallen angels. Christ did not come to help them, but to help us (those who through faith are children of Abraham - Galatians 3:29).
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2018, 05:14:23 PM »
hi Deborah
Thank you for a lovely post a good read I would like to ask you a question before we move on in your post you said it was important to remember  Christ was fully human if so could he have sinned when tempted.
we Know of course he was  without sin and he did not sin but being human was it possible for him to fall to temptation.

I was thinking of this verse.

Mat_19:17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
   


Love and Peace
Dave
     

Offline Deborah

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Re: Letter to the Hebrews
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2018, 07:44:09 PM »
hi Deborah
Thank you for a lovely post a good read I would like to ask you a question before we move on in your post you said it was important to remember  Christ was fully human if so could he have sinned when tempted.
we Know of course he was  without sin and he did not sin but being human was it possible for him to fall to temptation.

I was thinking of this verse.

Mat_19:17  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
   



Love and Peace
Dave
   

Hi Dave
This is actually quite a thorny question, and even the experts disagree. Personally I think that Jesus could have sinned - otherwise why did the devil bother to tempt Him? If it wasn't actually possible for Him to sin, then His temptations were meaningless. But fortunately for us, He didn't sin!

We know that God cannot be tempted. "God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone." (James 1:13) The Son of God could only be vulnerable to temptation by becoming human. In the same way, God is immortal and cannot die - so the Son had to become human in order to be able to die.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)