Author Topic: How much is my will and how much is spiritual interference?  (Read 81 times)

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: How much is my will and how much is spiritual interference?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2017, 02:23:38 AM »
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Haven't a clue what you are saying here, the church should be built on the Rock alone, Christ himself.

Can you give the scriptures for this ? the main scripture I can think of is Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

So a person may be protected/hedged in. [until a certain time]

I might suggest that you can be alone in a congregation - and ther loneliest place can be that of a leader.


You may now tell me that there are no leaders !


Offline francis drake

Re: How much is my will and how much is spiritual interference?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 10:17:58 PM »
Can you give the scriptures for this ?  the main scripture I can think of is Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
I had previously said "the church should be built on the Rock alone, Christ himself".
To which you ask what scripture, but you've already given it above.

To understand who or what that "rock" refers to, an excellent and easy bible study is to search all the Old Testament scriptures where the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is called "God the Rock, Rock of Salvation" or similar.

All becomes clear when you combine the OT search results with a hard look at what Jesus meant in Matt16v18. ie. "You are Peter (Greek Petros= a pebble) and on this Rock (Petra =Mountain = Jesus himself) I will build my church.
Note that in regard to the church, Jesus uses I and my, because the church entirely belongs to him alone, and not your pastor bishop or pope.

The definition "Rock" is always a metaphor for God or Christ, one in the same as the OT references show.

Peter was never the "Rock", nor was the church ever built on Peter, nor was it built on Peter's revelation about who Jesus was, as is falsely taught.

The scriptures clearly prove that the church is built on Christ the Rock of our salvation alone, and he alone is the head.





Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: How much is my will and how much is spiritual interference?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 10:41:42 PM »
So a person may be protected/hedged in. [until a certain time]

I might suggest that you can be alone in a congregation - and ther loneliest place can be that of a leader.
If a leader is lonely, then he has failed to do his job as scripture describes it, and should repent or seek alternative employment.
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You may now tell me that there are no leaders !
Its certainly true that there should be no leaders in the common understanding of the word.

The word "Leader" has two prime meanings.
1). Commander, ruler, president, captain etc. ie the one wielding power and authority etc.
In this meaning, the leader just has to command the use of his power for things to be done, and others are under obligation to obey. He doesn't need to be wise or good at his job because his official position alone is sufficient.
He could be an elected prime minister, or a North Korean despot with no legitimate basis.

Alternatively-
2). The front runner in a race, the one with the highest score, the first to discover something, a forerunner, etc.
This leadership grants a person no power whatsoever over other people, nor can they expect anyone's automatic obedience.
However, they do have one factor that the previous definition lacks, and that alone is what counts.

This person has proved himself and has a track record, by either doing it first, going there first, he, etc. And this is the correct bible definition of leadership. That is why newly qualified young bible college students are barred from church leadership in the bible. They have no track record.

Jesus never put his disciples under compulsion, nor put a guilt trip over them to follow him. They were always free to depart as many indeed did.
John6v66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here we see Jesus asking if they were also going to leave him. We also read in Peter's answer that they freely followed Jesus because they experienced him not as an autocratic tyrant, but as a forerunner leader.

That is what Jesus expected of the "leaders" of his church. He is looking for forerunners who have already walked the walk, not people who are good at commanding others around.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)