Author Topic: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?  (Read 165 times)

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Offline Deborah

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 11:33:04 AM »


Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?

None of us belongs to God until we are justified.
Once we are justified, we belong to Him.
Those who belong to Him He will not let go of until He completes their salvation on the last Day.

'Saved' and 'belonging to God' are just two different ways of describing the same set of people.
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 11:45:06 AM »
Hi Frances

You said.
Quote
. Do you understand this saying Dave? "Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence"
Lack of evidence, one way or another in your one scripture proves absolutely nothing, one way or another. Its a complete waste of breath       

Sorry Frances you'll have to explain this makes no sense to me.

All the scriptures I quoted proves that the disciples were jest ordinary working men they may have been devout Jews but there is no evidence of that.
The same applies to your assumption that they were born again before they met Jesus their is no evidence for that.

I will go as far as to say I don't think anyone was born again until after Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was freely given to all those who believed and would believe.

I don't believe that those of the OT received the Holy Spirit in the same way I believe God used them as a channel for the Spirit this is how God spoke to Israel.

I believe The Holy Spirit is the spiritual blood of Christ which was released into the world at Pentecost.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline Devonboy

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 09:18:15 AM »
Hi Frances
I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you let's look look at the following scripture.

. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

 20  And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

 21  And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

 22  And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him       


There is nothing in these verses which would indicate that these
 fisher men were born again or even new Jesus or who he was Christ had only jest started his ministry.

Love and peace
Dave

And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. He called and they decided to follow, they started a journey as we all do when first searching for 'meaning to life' JESUS, as that journey proceeded it came to a point where each one of them new in their hearts that He was the Messiah, they put their full trust in Him.
Therefore they were born again, not initially, because He had not gone to the Cross, but from the scriptures it is obvious the they were born again at a later time 'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life'. These disciple eventually fully believed, their eyes were opened.
Very much the journey that most of us take in coming to put our complete trust in the love and work of Jesus on the Cross.


Offline John

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 12:11:17 PM »
As God creates everybody and as creator has ownership of everyone the question is an oxymoron.

Offline Devonboy

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2017, 01:32:07 PM »
As God creates everybody and as creator has ownership of everyone the question is an oxymoron.

Explain please!!

Offline John

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 03:05:49 PM »
Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
Everyone belongs to God as he is their creator, so to say someone does not belong to God is a contradition.

It is like saying you are not your fathers son . Your Father is the person who fertilised the egg in your mother. To denie that your father is your father is pointless.
Simarlarly to say someone does not belong to the creator God is pointless.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2017, 03:38:21 PM »
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. He called and they decided to follow, they started a journey as we all do when first searching for 'meaning to life' JESUS, as that journey proceeded it came to a point where each one of them new in their hearts that He was the Messiah, they put their full trust in Him.
Therefore they were born again, not initially, because He had not gone to the Cross, but from the scriptures it is obvious the they were born again at a later time 'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life'. These disciple eventually fully believed, their eyes were opened.
Very much the journey that most of us take in coming to put our complete trust in the love and work of Jesus on the Cross.

Hi Devonboy
Thank you for your reply to which I agree jest one small point where the 12 disciples called or chosen I believe they were chosen as our Lord makes clear.

Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.
 


I believe these are  two different groups through the ones who are chosen the many are called.

Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
Everyone belongs to God as he is their creator, so to say someone does not belong to God is a contradition.

It is like saying you are not your fathers son . Your Father is the person who fertilised the egg in your mother. To denie that your father is your father is pointless.
Simarlarly to say someone does not belong to the creator God is pointless.

Hi John
good point the parable of the prodigal son comes to mind it dose not matter how far we stray from our heavenly father if we repent he will always welcome us back.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2017, 05:51:11 PM »
As God creates everybody and as creator has ownership of everyone the question is an oxymoron.

In the sense that "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof," I agree with you John, God owns the whole of creation.

However God has handed the planet over to the dominion of man, and in the Garden, man handed that dominion over to Satan.

Psalm115 v16The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

If you buy a house using a mortgage, the bank keeps hold of the title deeds and retains legal ownership of the house until the loan is paid off.
Yet through all of this you are classed as a homeowner. That's because you have legal responsibility for the property and all that goes on there, on behalf of the lender until its paid up when he gives you the deeds.

Likewise in God's economy, man effectively owns the planet and bears responsibility for what happens there, even though someone else has paid for it.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)