Author Topic: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?  (Read 176 times)

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Online francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2017, 05:53:55 PM »
Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
Everyone belongs to God as he is their creator, so to say someone does not belong to God is a contradition.

It is like saying you are not your fathers son . Your Father is the person who fertilised the egg in your mother. To denie that your father is your father is pointless.
Simarlarly to say someone does not belong to the creator God is pointless.

I think your theology falls apart here John. Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil, ie. not God, not Abraham etc.

Additionally, why would scripture state that we have been bought with a price, if we were already owned by God?

1Cor6v19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.

1Cor7v23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 24Each, wherein that he was called, brothers, in that let him abide with God.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline John

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 08:44:25 AM »
You already know the answers Francis you are just being provocative and I'll bite.

The devil didn't create the pharisees, God did. Jst we we join gods family by adoption so those who are not Christian join the devils family and have him as a father.

Which means as non christians we too once were part of the devils family and Jesus rescued us from it. He paid the ransom price fr us.

Online francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 07:37:13 PM »
You already know the answers Francis you are just being provocative and I'll bite.

The devil didn't create the pharisees, God did. Jst we we join gods family by adoption so those who are not Christian join the devils family and have him as a father.

Which means as non christians we too once were part of the devils family and Jesus rescued us from it. He paid the ransom price fr us.

Provocative, me, never!
John, that hurts a soft hearted individual like me, I shall have to go for some counselling now. :-X
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline John

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 08:19:14 AM »
Ouch,   Ouch,  Ah the bells, the bells.

                                                      Stop pulling my leg so hard the ringing is deafening!



                                                             ;)

Offline Cariad

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 09:53:20 AM »
@francis drake
@John

It is good to see you having fun. :D

Re. the subject of the thread: my thoughts go to Ephesians 2:1-13.

* Praise God for His mercy and His grace.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Online francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 11:12:03 AM »
Ouch,   Ouch,  Ah the bells, the bells.

                                                      Stop pulling my leg so hard the ringing is deafening!



                                                             ;)
If you will stare at that stupid screen all day long, and let the little gizmo get punched in the head, you deserve a head ache!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 11:31:08 AM »
Ouch,   Ouch,  Ah the bells, the bells.

                                                      Stop pulling my leg so hard the ringing is deafening!



                                                             ;)

Is that because sound magnifies in an empty space 👷

Love and Peace
Dave

Online francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 11:48:34 AM »
You already know the answers Francis you are just being provocative and I'll bite.

The devil didn't create the pharisees, God did. Jst we we join gods family by adoption so those who are not Christian join the devils family and have him as a father.
Just trying to tease this out more accurately here John.

We are not merely adopted, otherwise we would never have God's DNA in our system. We members of God's family by birth, the adoption mentioned here refers to a different process than our modern definition gives.
Adoption in this context doesn't mean the same as we use it today. It was a common practice to have a formal adoption of your own offspring as an official son and heir in the family farm, vineyard, bakery etc.
That was done in order to make any trade deal or negotiation have the same power as if it had been done by the father.
ie. -
If my son makes a contract, then I've made it.
If my son shakes your hand on a deal, then I've shaken it.
If my son swears an oath, then I swore it.

This can be seen with Jesus at his baptism.
His father announced it, then poured out on Jesus his own Holy Spirit power.

Matt3v16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, ?This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.?

The same is repeated at the transfiguration.
Luke9v34While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35A voice came from the cloud, saying, ?This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.?

Peter remind his readers of this fact.
2Peter1v17He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, ?This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.? 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that we must be born of God, born from above by God's Holy Spirit. That being the case, we must have the DNA of God in us!

So if adoption means the same as it does today, why would God adopt children that have actually been born of him?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)