Author Topic: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?  (Read 80 times)

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Offline Cf&ff

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Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« on: October 29, 2017, 01:05:01 AM »



Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?





Offline francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2017, 08:32:14 AM »


Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
If you believe that being saved means heaven when you're dead, then no he would not save them.

If however, you take the biblical use of the word that being "saved" and salvation" refers to deliverance from Philistine famine and plague, then yes the Lord does save.
This can be seen in Paul's comments regarding unbelieving spouses.

  1Cor7v12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. 16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

Having a believing husband or wife means that the Lord takes the family as a whole in his earthly dealings. They become "holy" or "set apart" before him. That has nothing to do with eternal life, but God saving and delivering them from their enemies. However that depends on the conduct of the believing spouse, whether they walk in faith or despite being born again, walk just like a non believer.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2017, 02:14:09 PM »


Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?

Hi
I think the answer is yes if God has a purpose for a person  the bible is full of people who have been chosen by God to do his will from Abraham right through to St Paul none of these people seam to have any special attributes that we can see.
and as far as I can see none of them chose God first as an example our lord chose his twelve apostles who seam to be jest ordinary people no where dose it say they were God fearing or believers they may have been but we are not told that.
So God choses whom he will believers or unbelievers if God choses you then you will do his will as Jonah found out.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 08:03:22 PM »
Hi
I think the answer is yes if God has a purpose for a person  the bible is full of people who have been chosen by God to do his will from Abraham right through to St Paul none of these people seam to have any special attributes that we can see.
and as far as I can see none of them chose God first as an example our lord chose his twelve apostles who seam to be jest ordinary people no where dose it say they were God fearing or believers they may have been but we are not told that.
So God choses whom he will believers or unbelievers if God choses you then you will do his will as Jonah found out.
Certainly the twelve were ordinary people, but other than Judas, for whom he had a specific purpose, they must all have been born again believers otherwise they could hardly have been disciple.

Whenever we see Jesus interacting with people, we see him respond to their expressions of faith, and that is stated as why he heals them.
Mark2v5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, ?Son, your sins are forgiven.? -And those who read their bibles will know that Jesus healed him.

Even if it isn't mentioned directly, does anyone seriously believe Jesus selected disciples from those who had no faith?
In contrast, those who resented his presence and were faithless like the Pharisees, he declared that they were of their father the devil.

If they were not born again why do we not see Jesus challenging them, after all he challenged Nicodemus.

But here is one statement that makes it clear.
Jn1v47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
The only way that guile can be removed is by knowing the Lord.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 09:32:39 PM »
Hi Frances
I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you let's look look at the following scripture.

. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

 20  And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

 21  And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

 22  And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him       


There is nothing in these verses which would indicate that these
 fisher men were born again or even new Jesus or who he was Christ had only jest started his ministry.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 08:36:19 AM »
Everyone belongs to god, they/we are all his creation.

Christians are merely those who God has brought back into a relationship with him.

Offline francis drake

Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 10:05:05 AM »
Hi Frances
I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you let's look look at the following scripture.

. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

 20  And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

 21  And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

 22  And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him       


There is nothing in these verses which would indicate that these
 fisher men were born again or even new Jesus or who he was Christ had only jest started his ministry.
Do you understand this saying Dave? "Absence of evidence is never evidence of absence"
Lack of evidence, one way or another in your one scripture proves absolutely nothing, one way or another. Its a complete waste of breath.

In contrast, I already proved from scripture that Nathaniel was already free of guilt, before he had ever heard of Jesus of Nazareth. The only people who can possibly have no sins counted against them are the ones already born again by the Spirit of God.

If you want to present scriptures which lack evidence one way or another, how about this.-
I present to you Dave, the full content of all 4 written gospels as evidence supporting my stance that the disciples must have been already born again. In detailed study you will see these 4 accounts are completely lacking in evidence whatsoever, of Jesus leading any of the apostles into a born again experience during his 3 years of close personal ministry with them.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Cariad

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Re: Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 10:26:19 AM »
Would God save someone who does not belong to Him ?

'For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
.'

(Rom 10:12,13) 

* Surely salvation, means being saved from sin and it's consequence (i.e., death).  That is something we each come to God for individually, in simple faith: believing that the sacrifice of Christ (God's only begotten Son) on our behalf is sufficient for us in God's sight. That the Lord Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for our sin, by dying in our place, and that we who are trusting in Him for salvation will therefore know victory over death through the power of the resurrection, in that day of God's choosing.

* Regarding Nathaniel being, 'without guile': being without guile is no indication that Nathaniel was, born from above; it just meant that unlike Jacob, the Father of Israel as a nation, who was known for being far from guileless, this Israelite was without guile (ie., without deceitfulness). No! he spoke the truth whether he offend or please; as his conversation beneath the fig tree testified to, and to which the Lord referred.

* @francis drake, spoke concerning: 'For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? '( 1 Cor.7:16): would he please explain why he believes this has relevance to the question being asked? I ask out of interest.
 
* We read that the disciples, such as John and Peter, were aware that the Lord Jesus Christ was, 'the Lamb of God', and further testimony from Peter, gives evidence to the fact that he believed that Jesus was 'The Christ' - 'the Son of the Living God'. (John 1: 35-42).  This internal witness testimony was given them of God (Matt.16:16,17)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Cariad