The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

[Browner]

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith
Your post will be answered shortly
Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Now, as we are entering into the last of the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
to become true believers ? by starting to obey Jesus? commandments!

Please also see my first thread, ?Have you been deceived by Satan through your church??

The Holy Spirit, God?s angels, and Satan?s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer ?
but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining ?in Christ?.

John 14 (NLT, 2007)
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
20 ? you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
and we will come and make our home with each of them.
24 Anyone who doesn?t love me will not obey me.
Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments ? are ?in me? (v.20).
This is what being ?in Christ? is all about.

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
4 If someone claims, ?I know God,? but doesn?t obey God?s commandments,
that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
5 But those who obey God?s word truly show how completely they love him.
That is how we know we are living in him.
John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments ? are ?in him? (v.5).
This is what being ?in Christ? is all about.

I have summarized Jesus? warnings in John 15 ?
John 15 (NLT, 2007)
1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn?t produce fruit ?
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
9 Remain in my love.
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
just as I obey my Father?s commandments and remain in his love.
Please note that ?every branch of mine? (v.2), and ?you? (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
Jesus says those who obey His commandments ?remain in my love? (v.10).
This is what being ?in Christ? is all about.
And He says those who ?do not remain in me? are thrown away and burned (v.6).
So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!
?To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ?s
Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
? There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
remains in our lives for which we have not repented. ? We can say that in our Christian
lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
and second, Christ?s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. ?
In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without
also stating a condition along with the promise ? To remain in Christ?s love (v.9,10) is the
same as to remain in Christ. ? To remain in Christ?s love, we must love him. To love him,
we must obey him (see John 14:15).  As long as we continue to obey Christ,
we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).?
? Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned ?
if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained ?in Christ?).
?There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
the law of sin and death.? (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)
Those who have remained ?in Christ? are free from the law of sin and death ?
because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!
?But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains
in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent
of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).?
? Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

?(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.
? So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,
letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.? (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)
?We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;
we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).?
? Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

?For if you live by its (the flesh?s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally).  But if through
the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.? (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)

[John]

You are basicly accusing all Christians of either not being Christian or of being disobedient Christians.
Jesus's parable oabout having a plank of wood in ones eye comes to mind.

May I sugest that you change from accusation to seeking to encourage Christians to engage in discussion.
If you are seeking to reach all Christians this is the wrong place try using Christian radio or the satalite companies, there is only a hundred people registered with this forum.

[Cariad]

@Browner
@John

What Browner fails to realise is that the one who has truly believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, is both saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and their salvation is sure.  That is based on their standing before God, in Christ Jesus, based on the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ, and the promises of God concerning Him.

What can be lost, is the prize, the honour of reigning with Him.  For all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their saviour, have life through His Name, but not all will reign with Him, that is awarded for faithfulness in walk and witness.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

[davetaff]

Hi Browner
What are our Lords commands I believe they are these.

.  30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

The fulfilment of all the laws is love if we love as he loved us then we comply with all the laws.

God proved beyond a shadow of doubt that crime and punishment dose not work he done this with Israel.
And we see it in the world today we have more laws than we know what to do with but it has not made the world a better place laws don't work.

But LOVE will work when everyone loves God and loves one another then we won't need any laws bring on the new heaven and earth.

Love and peace
Dave