Author Topic: Re: The Passover  (Read 218 times)

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Offline Deborah

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 09:50:51 PM »
Well, I also believe that the Israelites wrote the Old Testament - but it's still the way in which God chose to reveal Himself to the world, and to us. If He disapproved of anything in it, He could easily have said so.

There are many aspects of His character as depicted in the Bible that we may not like; but if we decide to 'remove' them, then we are following a different God from the one of the Bible. It's a made-up god of your own, and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise.

Now the God of the Bible has absolute authority over life and death (Deuteronomy 32:39; I Samuel 2:6). Either directly or indirectly, He determines the length of my life, and of yours - and of every child that dies. Now we look at all these deaths and say, "They were caused by illness, accident, war, or whatever." But it is God who allows these things to happen, nevertheless. The alternative is to believe in a God who is powerless, who is not in control - and that is perhaps more terrifying than a God who is stern as well as loving.

So what about the plague on Egypt's firstborn? They weren't all children, for a start; 'firstborn' could include adults as well. Even if it's the deaths of the children you are concerned about, they weren't being punished for any sin of theirs; the punishment was for their parents (who had murdered so many Israelite babies). God was dispensing perfect justice. To cap it all, they had been given plenty of warning; Pharaoh had had nine opportunities to submit to God's demand, but he refused to do so. All those deaths were unnecessary...
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: The Passover
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 03:40:22 AM »
I am pretty certain - in your practice, you would have come across people who were self harming ?

So the first born child or adult - the first child of a family lost their lives.

However the first death is not the significance here - but the second death is.

Whether I died at birth or died when I was 120 years of age is not the point .


However, eternal life is... [as longevity of life is not God's mission]  now as we see it in this life



Lazarus was raised from the dead defying all medical reason - only to die later....the reasoning is human reasoning and not God's.

Could it be that some of those that died [being the firsborn] were yet raised to life ?]


I mean were all egyptians bound for death according to their belief ? [or their own hearts]



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: The Passover
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 04:06:25 AM »
According to us now "where we are born defines our destiny"

And the time/family/  we were born in defines our outcome.

We have no choice .. [this is your argument]

Therefore we are dead before birth

Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 10:01:49 AM »
If I may I have a few more questions.
The scapegoat story in Leviticus. Very disturbing.Be cruel to a goat and your sins will go away
This will be very important when we discuss the Crucifixion later.
If you will not obey my commands I will bring upon you sudden terror,wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away away your life.Leviticus Ch.26.
Numbers Ch.14. Yet I will not fail to punish children and grandchildren to the third or fourth generations for the sin of their parents.
A massive injustice.

Judges Ch.11. The story of Jephthah's daughter.
Surely Jephthah,his daughter and her friends must all have been mentally ill.

2SAMUEL. David and Bathsheba.This is a grossly immoral story as was David arranging for Uriah to be killed in battle because David lusted after Bathsheba.
David also murdered his prisoners of war.

In Isiah,God said I will set Egyptian against Egyptian.Everyone will fight against his brother.
I do not believe that God arranges any sort of war.
Can we discuss please.

Offline Deborah

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 10:57:02 AM »
If I may I have a few more questions.
The scapegoat story in Leviticus. Very disturbing.Be cruel to a goat and your sins will go away
This will be very important when we discuss the Crucifixion later.
If you will not obey my commands I will bring upon you sudden terror,wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away away your life.Leviticus Ch.26.
Numbers Ch.14. Yet I will not fail to punish children and grandchildren to the third or fourth generations for the sin of their parents.
A massive injustice.

Judges Ch.11. The story of Jephthah's daughter.
Surely Jephthah,his daughter and her friends must all have been mentally ill.

2SAMUEL. David and Bathsheba.This is a grossly immoral story as was David arranging for Uriah to be killed in battle because David lusted after Bathsheba.
David also murdered his prisoners of war.

In Isiah,God said I will set Egyptian against Egyptian.Everyone will fight against his brother.
I do not believe that God arranges any sort of war.
Can we discuss please.

Kenneth, you haven't discussed any of the answers to your previous questions yet! You just keep adding more questions!

The Bible contains a lot of bad 'stuff' as well as good. What Jephthah did to his daughter, and what David did to Bathsheba and Uriah, are examples of failure and sin. Even our Biblical heroes make mistakes - sometimes quite serious ones.

You say that you don't believe that God ever arranges war - even though the Bible states otherwise. Why not just admit that you don't believe the Bible, and abandon it altogether?
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 02:09:56 PM »
Hi Kenneth
You seam to have lots of questions buy very few answers I would like to ask you a question
 
is there any part of the Bible you do believe.
Do you class yourself as a Christian
If so is it only the NT you believe
if this is true how do you account for all the references to the OT in the NT

Love and Peace
Dave 
 

Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2017, 05:12:28 PM »
Dave.Answers Yes
                     Yes
I believe any part of the Bible which glorifies God.
I was hoping for answers from other members of the group.
Best wishes.Kenneth.

Confused22

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 05:21:47 PM »
Hi @Kenneth Watwood,

I don't have any answers to any of your questions, however, the points you've raised, and many more, are examples of a God i have no wish to know.  Like you, I wonder about the illogical way this apparent powerful God has gone about doing what he's allegedly done, for the weakest of reasons.  I also do not have any confidence in the Bible, whilst parts may well be historically correct, and indeed some of the people may have existed, i cannot fathom how anyone could even try and use this as a blueprint for life. 

Keep asking your questions, the folks on here are fab, just be prepared to be challenged back lol.

confused22
xx