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Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« on: July 13, 2017, 03:20:59 PM »
I have been troubled for many years by the stories about God which are described in the Old Testament.
For example The Passover.It seems to me that God is being accused of killing innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this.Can we discuss please.



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: The Passover
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 11:12:29 PM »
Yes that's Exodus 12:12 and Exodus 12:23   [hover your mouse over the scriptures]

In the first scripture you have God passing over and in the second you have mention of the destroyer  @Kenneth Watwood

The same question might be asked off events such as 2 Kings 19:35 That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies! - or replicate with  Isaiah 37:36 and again in Isaiah 37:36   - also find 2 Samuel 24:16



Lets open it up


Offline davetaff

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 02:46:15 PM »
Hi Kenneth
Thank you for your question not an easy one to answer I have often wondered about these things myself how can we equate all this killing with the God of Love.

I believe God has used Israel as a kind of blueprint for the one who was to come which is Christ what better way to preach the good news of his coming but through the history of his chosen people Israel.

What happens to Israel happens to Christ its the same story line God says of Israel

Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
   
 

So even Gods first born son was sacrificed even if it did take a few thousand years and even our Lord Jesus Christ was sacrificed for us.

so why did the firstborn of Egypt have to die there is no salvation except with the shedding of blood I wonder how all the first born died was it an horrific death or was it a painless end of life leading to sleep in the grave until the resurrection.

For we know that everyone will be raised up in the last day and will be judged by our righteous judge the time that elapses between when they fell asleep and when they awake they will have now recollection of.

maybe that's why the destroyer came in the night the first born went to sleep as normal and will awake in the millenium sound a little more humane don't you think.

Love and Peace
Dave

     

Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 03:10:47 PM »
Thanks Dave. I have more questions and I will then try and explain my motivation for asking so much.
Leviticus Ch 24. Stone blasphemers.
Ch.20A woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it.
Kill both the woman and the animal.

Any man or woman who consults the spirits of the dead shall be stoned to death.


Numbers Ch 15.The man collecting sticks on the sabbath all the congregation shall Stone him.

Cities of refuge The next of kin will kill the murderer.
2Samuel Ch.6. Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God for the oxen stumbled.
God struck him and killed him.

Jeremiah Ch.13.i will fill all the inhabitants of the land.And I will dash them one against the other.
I will not pity nor spare nor have mercy,but will destroy them.
Surely none of the above is about our Loving Heavenly Father.


Offline davetaff

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 04:19:20 PM »
Thanks Dave. I have more questions and I will then try and explain my motivation for asking so much.
Leviticus Ch 24. Stone blasphemers.
Ch.20A woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it.
Kill both the woman and the animal.

Any man or woman who consults the spirits of the dead shall be stoned to death.


Numbers Ch 15.The man collecting sticks on the sabbath all the congregation shall Stone him.

Cities of refuge The next of kin will kill the murderer.
2Samuel Ch.6. Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God for the oxen stumbled.
God struck him and killed him.

Jeremiah Ch.13.i will fill all the inhabitants of the land.And I will dash them one against the other.
I will not pity nor spare nor have mercy,but will destroy them.
Surely none of the above is about our Loving Heavenly Father.



Hi Keneth
Hard reading is it not but I have wondered what dose it all mean had Israel misunderstood the law I was thinking how our lord handled the woman caught in adultery.

Joh 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8  And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9  And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10  When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
   


So did our Lord break the law or fulfil the law, Did he stone the woman to death I think so after all our Lord is  the stone the builders rejected what he was offering was a new life through rebirth.

Rebirth is dying to sin and a new life in Christ so yes he complied with the law by stoning her to death he being the stone.

So this begs the question had Israel misunderstood the law.

Love and Peace
Dave   
 

Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 04:29:49 PM »
We are getting into deep water sooner than I anticipated but I will try and explain.
I do not believe that the ancient Israelites were Gods chosen people or that they were given the promised land.
I believe that we are all Gods chosen people and that all of Gods earth is the promised land.Best wishes .Kenneth.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Passover
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 05:13:49 PM »
We are getting into deep water sooner than I anticipated but I will try and explain.
I do not believe that the ancient Israelites were Gods chosen people or that they were given the promised land.
I believe that we are all Gods chosen people and that all of Gods earth is the promised land.Best wishes .Kenneth.

Hi Kenneth
Interesting point of view but how do you explain this verse.

Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
   


This from the mouth of the Lord and if you  will accept it I believe we should view Israel as Adam and Christ as the last Adam.
And Joshua led Israel the first Adam into the promised land Canaan but this was jest a fortaste of what was to come through the second Adam.

Quote
I believe that we are all Gods chosen people and that all of Gods earth is the promised land.Best wishes .Kenneth.
   
 

You are not far of here the whole world will be given to Gods people under the leadership of our King of Kings Jesus Christ.

Of to find my tin hat and wait for incoming :laugh:

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Kenneth Watwood

Re: The Passover
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 05:45:10 PM »
I believe that the ancient Israelites wrote the Bible,not God And for good measure they added and this is the inspired word of God.
If you were applying for a job and you submitted your C.V. The person interviewing you would have uppermost in their minds the person sitting in front of me wrote this C.V.