Author Topic: The grave  (Read 1607 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2017, 06:50:15 PM »
Hi Devonboy
Thank you for your post it tends to support the conclusion I came to some time ago after reading different books by different authers who all had different interpretations.

In the end after becoming very confused I said to myself what dose the bible say to my so I laid aside all my other books to one side picked up my bible and started to read and I have never looked back.

When our Lord came into the world he went to the ordinary man in the street the poor and illiterate and many understood what he was saying.

So I asked myself would he make his word so hard to understand that I would need to become a scholar in Greek Hebrew and Aramaic to be able to understand what he wants me to know.

So when the bible tells me

. 1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished 


We have fallen asleep in Christ then I believe the simple word of scripture.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: The grave
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2017, 12:04:07 AM »
Well you know - I am all about God speaking today and that is my passion


Like I said "you are searching - like we all are"



Yes the thief on  the Cross could be said to be with Jesus - on that day ,..... Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."



This is the punctuation debate @ Luke 23:43, misunderstanding caused by punctuation error

Being that the thief must have gone straight to heaven - yet Jesus took three days.


Then again do not forget other parts of peoples experience [that became the bible] where in John 14:3 preparing seems to imply that it is more about our "actions" that build a house now in heaven [although it will be on the new earth]

Quite how our actions or responses can change our future - once our names are in the book of life is beyond me [then again they can be removed - so to understand this and get confused you take two scriptures Revelation 3:5  and Psalm 69:28  - Exodus 32:33  [anyway going off topic]


Regardless of how long we are in the grave - I believe [and always have] that in the state of eternity "it will seem as if we are with Christ and on the new earth - as if now"

So as far as I am concerend whether I am dead for a thousand years "it will still seem to me as if it is today"






https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=9951.msg67472#msg67472

Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2017, 05:43:30 PM »
Hi
just wondering can we look at the word TO DAY in a light I see in the letter to the Hebrew the word is used quite a bit

Heb_3:7  Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb_3:13  But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb_3:15  While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb_4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb_5:5  So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Heb_13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever   


Can it mean when the thief gets to paradise it will be to day.

  Son, to day have I begotten thee. 

This was not said on the day Christ was born so why believe the today spoken to the thief referred to that particular day but when  the thief awoke in paradise it would be to Day.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline wincam

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Re: The grave
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2017, 10:51:35 PM »
the problem is that once this would have been obvious and easily understood  but now confusion arises because the baby has been thrown out with the bath water and there is a refusal to reclaim and reinstate the baby - not just Nicodemus it seems realises and really accepts what Jesus really said and really meant when He uttered those wonderful words to a worried and weeping world " you must be born again" - He really meant what He said - to cut to the chase and a long story short He meant there will only be Christians in heaven and sadly only Christians in hell imho - more later - btw Paradise is not heaven  but Abrahams bosom or limbo in modern parlance - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline wincam

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Re: The grave
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2017, 06:37:16 AM »
Question - Where did the thief on the Cross go and who was he going to be with?


the thief was told 'this day' you will be with me in Paradise = a day is as a thousand years  = plenty of time to be born again, as a Christian, via water and Spirit, which is required like in the case of Nicodemus and other non Christians imho - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline Cariad

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Re: The grave
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2017, 10:52:21 AM »

the thief was told 'this day' you will be with me in Paradise = a day is as a thousand years  = plenty of time to be born again, as a Christian, via water and Spirit, which is required like in the case of Nicodemus and other non Christians imho - wincam

Hello @wincam,

The interpretation of the word 'today' in that way is not necessary, for the Lord's use of the word referred to the day on which the promise was made, and not to it's fulfilment.  Also the words, 'water and spirit', in John 3:5, to which you refer, are not two things but one. It is 'spiritual water' that is referred to: because it is accomplished by the operation of the Holy Spirit.  (It is a figure of speech)

The literal wording of John 3:5, is, 'Except a man shall have been begotten of water and spirit.'  That only one thing is meant by the two words, is clear from verses 6 & 8, where only the Spirit (the one) is mentioned.

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' (Joh 3:6)
'The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(Joh 3:8 ) 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline wincam

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Re: The grave
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2017, 07:41:08 PM »
Hello @wincam,

The interpretation of the word 'today' in that way is not necessary, for the Lord's use of the word referred to the day on which the promise was made, and not to it's fulfilment.  Also the words, 'water and spirit', in John 3:5, to which you refer, are not two things but one. It is 'spiritual water' that is referred to: because it is accomplished by the operation of the Holy Spirit.  (It is a figure of speech)

The literal wording of John 3:5, is, 'Except a man shall have been begotten of water and spirit.'  That only one thing is meant by the two words, is clear from verses 6 & 8, where only the Spirit (the one) is mentioned.

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' (Joh 3:6)
'The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(Joh 3:8 ) 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


that is a misinterpretation for Jesus did not say that one that is born  of water and spirit, viz a Christian, must be born again of water and spirit as a Christian = anyone who is not a Christian will be born ago as a Christian imho - there was as yet no one in  heaven when Jesus said that "he that is least in the kingdom viz a Christian was greater than John who was not a Christian - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Offline Cariad

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Re: The grave
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2017, 08:10:08 PM »

that is a misinterpretation for Jesus did not say that one that is born  of water and spirit, viz a Christian, must be born again of water and spirit as a Christian = anyone who is not a Christian will be born ago as a Christian imho - there was as yet no one in  heaven when Jesus said that "he that is least in the kingdom viz a Christian was greater than John who was not a Christian - wincam

I am sorry, but this does not make sense to me, wincam.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Cariad