Author Topic: The grave  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline Devonboy

Re: The grave
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 11:36:00 AM »
Hello @francis drake

The points you have raised have all been dealt with in previous posts, and I have not got time to go through them again at present.  The context of each one gives the answer in each case, and only preconceived notions born of tradition are preventing you seeing the truth.

This is between yourself and the Lord, fd, only He can bring understanding. I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Sorry but I think this is out of order ' I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie' , we are all on a journey non of us is perfect, non of us knows the whole truth, as we go through our Christian lives views can and do change, 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known'.

Offline francis drake

Re: The grave
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 12:36:04 PM »
Hello @francis drake

The points you have raised have all been dealt with in previous posts, and I have not got time to go through them again at present. 

No they haven't been dealt with. Some of the verses you posted support my case also. And your interpretation of them is directly refuted by other verses.
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The context of each one gives the answer in each case,
No they do not @Cariad.
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and only preconceived notions born of tradition are preventing you seeing the truth.
You are oblivious to the fact that you are stuck in tradition which prevents you seeing the truth.
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This is between yourself and the Lord, fd, only He can bring understanding. I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie.
Take care @Cariad. You are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Additionally, when you accuse people who have been taken up to heaven, like Paul or my wife (@Isilme), of being deceived, you are attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to demons .
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: The grave
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 01:45:18 PM »
There is always Elijah, I don't believe that he went to sleep!!

Hi Devonboy
Yes you are right the same for Enoch the seventh from Adam they were both taken up to heaven without dying why only God knows.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

Re: The grave
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 02:10:37 PM »
Hi
found this verse and thought it may be of interest

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
   

The question is that spirit alive in heaven I don't think so It seams to me that the verse is speaking about everyone good and bad so if I may speculate a little.
Is our spirit when we die a bit like a CD which is a record of all our life which at the resurrection God puts into our resurrection bodies.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: The grave
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 04:43:24 PM »
Hi
found this verse and thought it may be of interest

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
   

The question is that spirit alive in heaven I don't think so It seams to me that the verse is speaking about everyone good and bad so if I may speculate a little.
Is our spirit when we die a bit like a CD which is a record of all our life which at the resurrection God puts into our resurrection bodies.
Ecc 12v7 demonstrates the fallacy of soul sleep and proves that our human spirit is very much alive after bodily death.
Our spirit goes either into the presence of God like Lazarus (ie. in Abraham's bosom) or like the rich man, is relegated to sheol.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Rose Anna

Re: The grave
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 10:43:12 AM »
In considering all of the experiences, I heard about within the bible. As well as those not in there, I have seeked the truth. Looking to God for the answer.

Of course being human I can make mistakes in my questions,in seeking the truth.

Yet consider that we all have a spirit that outlives our body.
References have been made to this.eg. Luke 24:39
Jesus referred to ghosts. Unless he meant angels and demons or something like that.

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus says do not fear those who just kill the body. For only God can kill both the body and soul.

Yet if the spirit is immortal, then that means that was  either automatically from our physical conception, or before we were physically born.

I do not believe that at all and that immortality is a gift. Romans 2:7
1 Peter 1:23

Yet in a nutshell, am saying that  although the spirit in a person outlives the body.

The spirit is not immortal ( eternal), unless born again.


Therefore then having the imperishable seed. Which is the treasure inside the jar of clay. 2 Corinthians 4:7

Offline davetaff

Re: The grave
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2017, 02:33:57 PM »
Quote from: francis drake link=topic=9776.msg67387#msg67387 dsate=1510764204
Ecc 12v7 demonstrates the fallacy of soul sleep and proves that our human spirit is very much alive after bodily death.
Our spirit goes either into the presence of God like Lazarus (ie. in Abraham's bosom) or like the rich man, is relegated to sheol.

Hi Frances
Thanks for your reply but I think you are adding words to the verse that aren't there and I don't believe the human spirit is the Holy Spirit other wise everyone would have had it from the beginning which is nonsense.

Lets look at a few verses

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
 Gen 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
 Gen 7:15  And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Gen 7:22  All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
 


As we can see from the above the breath of life is in all living creatures humans and animals alike so are you saying all animals go to heaven when they die.
The only thing that returns to God his is life giving Spirit and this was something that was with God before the creation of the world are you saying that we were all in heaven before creation.

As for
Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it   

If we read it as it is and don't add anything to it, it jest means God takes back his life giving Spirit.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

 

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: The grave
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 03:09:45 AM »
Sorry but I think this is out of order ' I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie' , we are all on a journey non of us is perfect, non of us knows the whole truth, as we go through our Christian lives views can and do change, 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known'.
 
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Sorry but I think this is out of order ' I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie' [Sorry but I think this is out of order ' I hope you do not prefer to believe a lie'l

It's okay - pick up the pieces and begin again - don't worry - your response is only due to lack of time . @Cariad

As I first said to you "I
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see many screens - as you are trying to many things to many people" "

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