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Cariad

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The grave
« on: July 09, 2017, 04:52:31 PM »
'Therefore prophesy and say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
"Behold, O my people,
I will open your graves,
and cause you to come up out of your graves,
and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD,
when I have opened your graves, O my people,
and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live
,
and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it,
and performed it, saith the LORD.'

(Eze 37:12)-14) 

This is obviously a prophecy concerning God's People Israel, but it shows quite clearly where the dead remain. In the grave.  There are many more references like this, and so to deny the truth of it is senseless.

This refers to a resurrection of the dead of Israel, which is specific, but the state of the dead, as described here is common to all.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad






Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 03:53:08 PM »
Hi Chris
Made me think of the first fulfilment of this prophecy

51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

 52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, (Compare)

 53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many

Love and peace
Dave


Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 05:21:44 PM »
Hi
Some time since we looked at this interesting question what happens in the grave if anything for myself I don't believe any thing happens I don't think we go anywhere we jest sleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection and there are scriptures to back this up.

1Co 15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co_15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th_4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
 


So from the above verses it is plain to see that when we die it is jest a long sleep there in no fiery pit called hell jest sleep as we wait for the resurrection.

So when we die we go neither to heaven or hell we jest go to the grave and sleep but we need to remember when we sleep we are not conscious of anything atnd when we awake it will be today so it will seam like we died and went strait into the next life what ever that may be.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 01:16:57 PM »
Hi
Jest wondering where the false doctoring of hell the fiery pit the devil prodding us with his fork.
One wonders why people believe such things likewise that at death believers go strait to heaven when you die.
I find nothing in scripture to support these theories but many people do is it not time the church put them right.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: The grave
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 11:07:43 PM »
Hi
Jest wondering where the false doctoring of hell the fiery pit the devil prodding us with his fork.
One wonders why people believe such things likewise that at death believers go strait to heaven when you die.
I find nothing in scripture to support these theories but many people do is it not time the church put them right.

Love and Peace
Dave

Paul visited heaven.
Many people have visited heaven in near death experiences. They have met believing family members who have already died and gone to the Lord.
The doctrine of soul sleep is just unbiblical nonsense..
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Cariad

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Re: The grave
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 11:29:33 PM »
Paul visited heaven.
Many people have visited heaven in near death experiences. They have met believing family members who have already died and gone to the Lord.
The doctrine of soul sleep is just unbiblical nonsense..

Hello @francis drake,

The former is a deception (John 3:13; Eccl.12:7; Eccl.9:5), the latter is simply not the testimony of Scripture (1 Thess.4:14; Psa.17:15; Acts 7:60; John.11:11,14). Only believers are spoken of as being 'asleep' in death (1 Cor. 15:18), for they have the hope of resurrection to life. 

* Paul spoke regarding visions (2 Cor.12:1-5). The words, 'caught up', in verse 2, is actually, 'caught away' in the Greek.(Bible marginal notes). Like John the Apostle, the vision could have been of the future heaven and earth of the book of the Revelation, where reference is also made to Paradise (2 Cor.12:4; Rev.2:7), referring to the New Jerusalem.  Our Lord refers to that same Paradise to the thief on the cross (Luke 23:43): who will indeed be with Him there in resurrection glory.

Praise God!

This has been argued many times, and it is pointless going over it again, unless both sides are willing to let the Word of God be the final arbiter.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad




Offline davetaff

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Re: The grave
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 02:16:38 PM »
Paul visited heaven.
Many people have visited heaven in near death experiences. They have met believing family members who have already died and gone to the Lord.
The doctrine of soul sleep is just unbiblical nonsense..

Hi Frances
Yes Paul visited heaven so did John but the both returned to earth and died and where buried and are still asleep in there graves.
As for out of death experiences these can be caused by many different factors and are no proof that we go anywhere after death the only two people who have gone to heaven without dying are Enoch and Elijah.
If as you say we go to Heaven or hell after death and are conscious of the fact how can there be a resurrection of the dead

Eze 37:12  Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
   
 

so Frances there will be a resurrection of the dead which means we can not be resurrected if we are alive in Heaven or Hell.

You said
Quote
The doctrine of soul sleep is just unbiblical nonsense   
 

So these verses from St Paul are nonsense and we can bin them on you say so.

1Co 15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co_15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th_4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
   
 

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline Devonboy

Re: The grave
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 01:35:01 PM »
Question - Where did the thief on the Cross go and who was he going to be with?