Author Topic: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans  (Read 1035 times)

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Cariad

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2017, 07:31:50 PM »
Hello again,

This is the fourth entry today:-

'For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
.. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
.... but the doers of the law shall be justified.
...... For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
........ do by nature the things contained in the law,
........ these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
...... Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
.... their conscience also bearing witness,
.. and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ

according to my gospel.'
(Rom 2:11-16)

'For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
for it is the power of God unto salvation
to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed
from faith to faith:
as it is written, The just shall live by faith.'

(Rom.1:16,17)

* Those who, though they have not heard the gospel of God in Christ Jesus, if they have, by continuance in well doing, sought for glory and honour and immortality: having only the law of conscience as their guide; but having received, by faith, the witness of creation's voice as to the existence, and power of the Godhead: and not fallen into idolatry; will receive life everlasting.  For God knows the secrets of men's hearts: and He knows how, had they heard the gospel of Christ, they would have responded.  I believe this to be the witness of Roman's chapter 2.

* God is just and the Justifier of all who believe, and He is a rewarder of all who diligently seek Him. (Heb.11:6).

Praise His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad
 

Offline davetaff

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2017, 04:15:26 PM »
Hi Chris
Good post as usual lots to think about you said.

Quote
* In this Judgement in 'The day of wrath', God will render to every man (outside of Christ) according to his deeds. These are not covered by the righteousness of God, they have not received of His saving grace.  They will be judged according to their deeds.   

Just wondering if someone has lived a good life if that's possible how do you think God will judge that person for there must be millions of people from the foundation of the world who have not heard of God or Jesus who only have the creation to point them to God do you think they will be saved because there deeds are good in Gods sight.

Rom 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

It seams from this Whoever sins will perish weather Jew or gentile.
 
Rom 2:13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We know that the only one to keep the whole law was Jesus

Rom 2:14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Dose this mean there are some that have complied with the law and will be saved ?  what dose a law unto themselves mean.

Rom 2:15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Dose this mean there are people all over the world from the beginning who have received the law in there hearts or did this happen only after the time of Christ
 
Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

If those who are forgiven will not be judged the dose it mean that the above verses only apply all those who are not forgiven.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2017, 10:27:53 AM »
Quote
@davetaff:
Hi Chris
Good post as usual lots to think about you said.

Quote
Cariad:
* In this Judgement in 'The day of wrath', God will render to every man (outside of Christ) according to his deeds. These are not covered by the righteousness of God, they have not received of His saving grace.  They will be judged according to their deeds.
 

Just wondering if someone has lived a good life if that's possible how do you think God will judge that person for there must be millions of people from the foundation of the world who have not heard of God or Jesus who only have the creation to point them to God do you think they will be saved because there deeds are good in Gods sight.

Hi Dave,(@davetaff)

I believe that when God judges the secrets of men's hearts (Rom.2:16), He will judge justly: and there will be those to whom He will grant eternal life (Rom.2:6-11);  for God does not judge by outward appearances, but looks on the heart (1 Sam.16:7b).

Quote
?For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;? (Rom 2:11,12) 

It seems from this whoever sins will perish whether Jew or gentile.

* Yes, those who are under law will be judged by the law, and those who never had the law will be judged without law, and those who are found to have sinned in either category will indeed perish (ie., die).  For the wages of sin is death (Rom.6:23).
 
Quote
Rom 2:13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We know that the only one to keep the whole law was Jesus

* Yet, Paul could say concerning himself, that he was, as:- ' ... ... touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.' (Phil 3:6b).  For He was, a doer of the law, and not a, 'hearer', only.
.
Quote
Rom 2:14  For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Does this mean there are some that have complied with the law and will be saved ?  what does a law unto themselves mean.

* Those who were never under the law of Moses (Gentiles), who did by nature the things contained in the law, these though they had not the law, were indeed, ' ... a law unto themselves', ie.,(they lived according to their own light, independent of law).

Quote
Rom 2:15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Does this mean there are people all over the world from the beginning who have received the law in there hearts or did this happen only after the time of Christ

*  It would seem that there were those from the beginning, who had the law of God in their hearts, their conscience being their guide, their thoughts accusing or excusing them. It was they who believed the voice of creation concerning the Creator, and also the record of those who had lived from the beginning, which was passed down from Father to Son through the ages, Noah that righteous man, would have taught his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, and through them the nations would have received knowledge of God, and of the seed of the woman, that was to come. 
 
Quote
Rom 2:16  In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

If those who are forgiven will not be judged the dose it mean that the above verses only apply all those who are not forgiven.

* Those who are saved by grace, will not come into condemnation, they have been delivered from under the law of sin and death and brought into the law of the spirit of life, which is in Christ Jesus. So, yes, it is those who have never heard the gospel of God concerning His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, including those who were under the law, and those who had only the law of conscience and the witness of Creation as their guide, who will be judged. This is not the great white throne judgment of Rev.20:11.

Thank you, Dave.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »
Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

When reading through chapter one, we reached what seemed to be the theme of the epistle with the words of Rom.1:16,17 and the blessed ground of the righteousness of God made known in the gospel of Christ, and justification by faith.  But then the terrain altered and we appeared to have taken a turn into quite different territory, in Rom.1:18. 

Ahead of us, we can see the lush vegetation of justification by faith springing up yet again in Romans 3:20,22, but we have to pass through this intervening space, and Romans 3:9 tells us why.

Looking back at the ground we are at present standing on, Paul says, "We have proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.".  This shows us the reason for the turn in the path and the different terrain beneath our feet. This is Paul's reason for this digression.

Looking at this valley, and the path we are following, we have seen Paul bring the case against the Gentile world, in Rom.1:18-32, silence the judgemental finger pointing of the self righteous Jew in Rom.2:1,3,4,5,6, and defending the judgement of God, and His truth in Rom.2:2,4: he then shows them the throne of judgement before which all will stand, whether Jew or Gentile, in Rom.2:5b, and 6.  Setting forth the basis upon which judgement will be made in Rom.2:7-16.

Then in Rom.2:17 the witness for the prosecution turns to the Jew, who are to be judged under the law of Sinai, which takes us forward from Rom.2:10 to 3:18, and the concluding declaration, 'all the world guilty before God' in Rom.3:19.  Only then do we reach the lush pastures of justification by faith again, to which this valley journey will bring us.

This is the way we must navigate, we now have our map laid out, and can walk confidently through it, and learn the lessons it will reveal.

We have already seen that in the  judgement of God, all is not lost for the sinner who has never heard the gospel message, for God will be just, and judge righteously the secrets of men's hearts.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2017, 05:30:08 PM »
Hi Chris
some time since we visited this interesting thread thank you for the above post very enlightening thought I might continue with a few verses.

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


The law is the knowledge of sin I have wondered if the law could be the tree of knowledge of good and evil before the law there was no transgression.

Then we have righteousness of God this has to be Christ and everything he did it's interesting that the law and the prophets are witnesses might be interesting to see how the law is a witness is it that the law is about Christ should we look at the law differently.

Then Paul goes on to tell us that it is through faith in Jesus Christ that we are made righteous how wonderful is that.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Cariad

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2017, 10:50:55 PM »
Hi Chris
some time since we visited this interesting thread thank you for the above post very enlightening thought I might continue with a few verses.

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


The law is the knowledge of sin I have wondered if the law could be the tree of knowledge of good and evil before the law there was no transgression.

Then we have righteousness of God this has to be Christ and everything he did it's interesting that the law and the prophets are witnesses might be interesting to see how the law is a witness is it that the law is about Christ should we look at the law differently.

Then Paul goes on to tell us that it is through faith in Jesus Christ that we are made righteous how wonderful is that.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Hi Dave (@davetaff)

Forgive me, but I must quote these verses again, for my own satisfaction,

'Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,
being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference:'

(Rom 3:20-22)

* This is so wonderfully clear, isn't it, Dave?  Those who received Paul's epistle at Rome, who were of Jewish descent, could be in no doubt that they could not be justified, in God's sight, by the deeds of the law.

* Why should it be impossible for justification to be by the works of the law? - The answer follows:- 'For by the law is the knowledge of sin'. The law reveals the fact that man is already, 'sold under sin', dominated and ruled by it. (see, Rom.7:8,10,14). The law was never given as a means of salvation or life; it was given to reveal to man the utter impossibility of attaining to righteousness by his own works, and to lead him to Christ.

* The law itself was good, (Rom.7:12,14,16), the reason for failure lies in the flesh.  Man himself cannot use the law to his good; it simply becomes a ministration of condemnation and death to him (2Cor.3). A holy and spiritual law, when brought to bear upon the human heart, immediately reveals the presence there of sin (see, Rom.8:7,8).

---------------------

* 'But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested'

Praise God!

* In what way was it witnessed by the law and the prophets? - This term, 'the law and the prophets', encompasses the whole of the Old Testament witness (Matt.7:12; Luke 24:44); and the whole of the Old Testament Scriptures testify of Christ, both directly and in type and shadow; and of righteousness which is by faith alone, eg., (see Romans 1:17).   

* In (Rom 10:1-4) Paul shows clearly the error that his brethren (in the flesh) had fallen into regarding righteousness and the law:-

'Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel .is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,
and going about to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.'


* Christ is the 'end of the law' ('for righteousness') 'to every one that believeth.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



 

 

Offline davetaff

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2017, 02:54:04 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your post I do enjoy reading them very informative thanks again.

I would like to dwell a little on the question of the law and how it relates to Christ as you Know I believe Israel is the first Adam of this creation they received the law.

 Lev 18:5  Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.


So Israel did not keep the law and died ( what does Live in them mean ) But we know our lord kept all the laws and statutes and he lives for ever so was it through keeping the law that he obtained eternal life after all he was a Jew.

Then we have.
Luk 10:25  And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26  He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27  And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28  And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


As I understand it the whole law is incorporated in these two laws so if the jews Love as they should will they live but we will live by faith in Jesus Christ then will we all be joined together in one.

Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


Love and Peace
Dave


 

Cariad

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Re: A walk through Paul's epistle to the Romans
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2017, 09:11:13 PM »
'He shall therefore keep My statutes,
and My judgments:
which if a man do, he shall live in them:
I am the Lord.'

(Lev. 18:5)

Thank you for the question, Dave.

You asked me about the words, 'which if a man do, he shall live in them:'.

Live = live again (in resurrection life).(Rev. 20:5), or live in the world which is to come.
Live (in this sense) = Ezek.18:21; 20:11; Luke 10:28; Rom.10:5; Gal.3:12; Neh.9:29; Hab.2:4; Rom.1:17; Heb.10:38 & ch.), The verb is found in (Isa. 26:19; 38:16; Isa. 55:3; Ezek.18:19; Ezek.37:3,5,6,14; Hos.6:2; Amos 5:4 & ch.).

In Rom.2:16, we read of the day when the Lord shall judge the secrets of men's hearts: and we are told that those under the law shall be judged by the law; and those without the law by the law of conscience. Rom.2:6,7 tell us that God will render to every man according to His deeds, eternal life or death being the outcome.

In Christ Jesus
Chris