Author Topic: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared  (Read 705 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 02:36:04 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply I would now like to look at the third day of creation when God created all the vegetation especially the tree fist lets take a look at these few verses.

 Mar 8:23  And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mar 8:24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25  After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Not only did our Lord cure his physical blindness but also his spiritual blindness he saw men as tree's maybe we should do the same I believe our Lord is the tree of life he was before all things and through him all things are created we know Israel is the fig tree he is also the tree of Knowledge they became this when they received the law the law tell us what sin is ( evil )

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 09:43:04 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply I would now like to look at the third day of creation when God created all the vegetation especially the tree fist lets take a look at these few verses.

 Mar 8:23  And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mar 8:24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25  After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Not only did our Lord cure his physical blindness but also his spiritual blindness he saw men as tree's maybe we should do the same I believe our Lord is the tree of life he was before all things and through him all things are created we know Israel is the fig tree he is also the tree of Knowledge they became this when they received the law the law tell us what sin is ( evil )

Love and Peace
Dave

'And He took the blind man by the hand,
and led him out of the town;
and when He had spit on his eyes,
and put His hands upon him,
He asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, "I see men as trees, walking."
After that He put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up:
and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.'

(Mar 8:23-25)

Praise God!

* The third day:-

'And God said,
"Let the waters under the heaven
be gathered together unto one place,
and let the dry land appear:"

and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth;
and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas:
and God saw that it was good.
And God said,
"Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed,
and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,
whose seed is in itself, upon the earth:"

and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass,
and herb yielding seed after his kind,
and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind:
and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.'


Quote
Not only did our Lord cure his physical blindness but also his spiritual blindness he saw men as tree's maybe we should do the same I believe our Lord is the tree of life he was before all things and through him all things are created we know Israel is the fig tree he is also the tree of Knowledge they became this when they received the law the law tell us what sin is ( evil )

* With respect, Dave (@davetaff), there is nothing in the text to say that the man was spiritually blind, or that he was cured from it, it was his physical sight which our Lord sought to restore, wasn't it?

- The fig tree represents Israel's national privileges (Matt. 21:19-20; Mark 11:13,20-21; Luke 13:6-9)
- The olive tree represents Israel's religious privileges (Rom.11)
- The vine represents Israel's spiritual privileges (Isa. 5; John 15)

- The tree of life - Gen. 2:8,9; 3:22-24
- The tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Gen.Gen. 2:9; 2:16-17; 3:1-24.

* What Scriptural justification do you have to say that our Lord is representative of the tree of life, or that Israel is representative of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Dave?  I can understand your reasoning, but are we intended to allegorize these things in this way?  Surely, if the Holy Spirit wanted these trees to be representative of our Lord and of Israel He would have told us clearly and unequivocally, not left it up to our imagination.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Cariad






Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 05:02:15 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your reply You said

Quote
With respect, Dave (@davetaff), there is nothing in the text to say that the man was spiritually blind, or that he was cured from it, it was his physical sight which our Lord sought to restore, wasn't it?
 

The way I see it is if at the first attempt the man did not see clearly then it would imply our lord had failed which of course is not possible so allowing the man to see trees walking must have a purpose maybe the purpose is for us a clue to start seeing thing through different eyes maybe saying the man was spiritually blind was a bad choice of words on my part.

Quote
* What Scriptural justification do you have to say that our Lord is representative of the tree of life, or that Israel is representative of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Dave?  I can understand your reasoning, but are we intended to allegorize these things in this way?  Surely, if the Holy Spirit wanted these trees to be representative of our Lord and of Israel He would have told us clearly and unequivocally, not left it up to our imagination.   

First of all Christ is the life of the word we also have these words of our Lord.

Joh 15:1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Is a vine not a tree I believe this vine could certainly be the tree of life don't you think.

So which tree should we eat from Our Lord Jesus Christ or Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 05:19:11 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your reply You said

The way I see it is if at the first attempt the man did not see clearly then it would imply our lord had failed which of course is not possible so allowing the man to see trees walking must have a purpose maybe the purpose is for us a clue to start seeing thing through different eyes maybe saying the man was spiritually blind was a bad choice of words on my part.

First of all Christ is the life of the word we also have these words of our Lord.

Joh 15:1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Is a vine not a tree I believe this vine could certainly be the tree of life don't you think.

So which tree should we eat from Our Lord Jesus Christ or Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave (@davetaff),

I do look forward to your postings, even though we do not always agree. :)

Yes! Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the same as eating and drinking of Him. (John 6:43)

Back soon (God willing)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 09:59:47 AM »
Quote
@davetaff:
The way I see it is if at the first attempt the man did not see clearly then it would imply our lord had failed which of course is not possible so allowing the man to see trees walking must have a purpose maybe the purpose is for us a clue to start seeing thing through different eyes.

'And He cometh to Bethsaida;
and they bring a blind man unto Him, and besought Him to touch him.
And He took the blind man by the hand, and led Him out of the town;
and when He had spit on his eyes, and put His hands upon him, He asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, "I see men as trees, walking."
After that He put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up:
and He was restored, and saw every man clearly.
And He sent him away to his house, saying, "Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town."

(Mark 8:22-26)

Hello Dave, (@davetaff)

I agree with what you have said (above)  :)

I have been thinking about this overnight, in the light of the fact that nothing that our Lord is recorded to have done or said was without a purpose (as you say), for I agree that this miraculous event was, and is by application, intended to teach something.   So, what is it? I believe that the answer must lie in the context.  So I applied the principle of interpretation used by Miles Coverdale, the translator of the first complete English Bible (forgive the Old English of 1535):-

'It shall greatly helpe ye to understand Scripture, if thou mark,
Not only what is spoken , or wrytten,
but of whom,
and to whom,
with what words,
at what time,
where,
to what intent,
with what circumstance,
considering what goeth before, and what followeth.'

* What I took notice of was firstly, to whom our Lord spoke these words, (to His disciples), and what the circumstance was within which the miracle took place, which necessitated that I consider what came before it and what followed. Reading Mark 8:14-21:-

'Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread,
neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf.
And He charged them, saying,
"Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees,
and of the leaven of Herod."

And they reasoned among themselves, saying,
"It is because we have no bread."
And when Jesus knew it, He saith unto them,
"Why reason ye, because ye have no bread?
- perceive ye not yet, neither understand?
- have ye your heart yet hardened?
- Having eyes, see ye not?
- and having ears, hear ye not?
- and do ye not remember?
- When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?"

They say unto him, "Twelve."
- "And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?
And they said, "Seven."
And He said unto them,- "How is it that ye do not understand?"

(Mar 8:14-21) 

* Here, I believe, lies part of the answer, at least, as to why the miracle unfolded as it did, and the lesson that the Lord wished to impart to His disciples through it.  How we apply it to ourselves is also apparent, I believe.  There are other things to be learned from the circumstances surrounding this miracle of our Lord, which observation and consideration will reveal, but I don't have the time at the moment to go into it further.

* I do thank you, Dave, for making me look at this, and consider, for I have learned a great deal, and will learn more yet again, as I consider it later, when I have time.

* Please continue sharing your thoughts on the subject of the thread.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour.
Cariad
 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 02:42:21 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your post plenty of food for thought I think the first thing to not is the disciples only saw the miracle but not what it represented.
First we must remember this

Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34  Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Our Lord is the bread He has been with mankind from the beginning feeding us through his word for 5000 years the first 5000 years of creation the  6th day of creation is different that's when man in Gods image is finalised

The 4000 is the feeding of Israel for 4000 years 4 days from Noah the 7 loaves and seven baskets indicate completion.

The baskets full of pieces tells us this bread will never come to an end our Lord gave it to the disciples gave it to the people the question is did they pass it on to others.

Love and Peace
Dave           

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2016, 03:28:27 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your post plenty of food for thought I think the first thing to not is the disciples only saw the miracle but not what it represented.
First we must remember this

Joh 6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34  Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Our Lord is the bread He has been with mankind from the beginning feeding us through his word for 5000 years the first 5000 years of creation the  6th day of creation is different that's when man in Gods image is finalised

The 4000 is the feeding of Israel for 4000 years 4 days from Noah the 7 loaves and seven baskets indicate completion.

The baskets full of pieces tells us this bread will never come to an end our Lord gave it to the disciples gave it to the people the question is did they pass it on to others.

Love and Peace
Dave         

Hello Dave (@davetaff),

You say that the disciples saw the miracle, but not what it represented. How could they have known that it represented anything though, Dave?  For the Lord did not tell them. How, in fact, do we know that it represented anything, for we are not told so in Scripture, are we? What Scriptural basis do you have for the interpretation you place upon these miraculous events yourself, Dave? For without verifiable Scriptural evidence there can be no sound basis for believing it to be true.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2016, 05:20:28 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply How about.

Mat 26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Christ is the bread of heaven and he said to his disiples

Mar 8:17  And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
Mar 8:18  Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
Mar 8:19  When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
Mar 8:20  And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
Mar 8:21  And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

I take it from these verses that Christ expected them to understand more about the miracle than what appeared on the surface.
The bread Christ offers us leads to eternal life.

Love and Peace
Dave