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Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 04:05:10 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your post If I may start with this quote from St Paul.

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

I gather from this that Paul knew that the creation process was still going on in his day and we know it has not bean completed yet in another place he says.

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here!

so we have a good grounds to believe God can start a new creation so why not with Noah so I say there are three creations but they are all part of one big creation bit like the trinity if you like  hope that makes some sense.


So lets have a look at the following scripture you quoted.

'And God said, Let us make man (mankind) in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man (Adam) in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them.'
(Gen 1:26,27)

So lets look at the first part of the above I don't think Mankind has ever been transformed into the image of God as yet but this is Gods will for Mankind.
There is no reason to believe that God could possibly fail and we who believe Know that mankind in Gods Image will be realised in Christ.
As for the last part.

 So God created man (Adam) in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them.'
(Gen 1:26,27)

This has not bean realised as yet it will be when Christ Jesus our Lord is united with all those who belong to him then the first part of the text will be fulfilled.
some will say God spoke man into existence in one day and this may be true if just concerns a human being but man ( mankind ) in Gods image is an entirely different thing.

we may also consider the creation of Eve.

 Gen 2:21  And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22  And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25  And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

This is very reminiscent of the creation of the church don't you think Adam slept Christ Died eve was created out of Adams side out of our Lords side flowed the water and the blood out of which the church was created which is Christs Eve his helper.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2016, 01:33:01 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your post If I may start with this quote from St Paul.

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

I gather from this that Paul knew that the creation process was still going on in his day and we know it has not bean completed yet in another place he says.

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here!

so we have a good grounds to believe God can start a new creation so why not with Noah so I say there are three creations but they are all part of one big creation bit like the trinity if you like  hope that makes some sense.

Hi Dave, (*davetaff),

What you have quoted, Dave, relate to God's original creation, which is groaning still: see (Joel 1:10-20; Jer. 12:4; Isaiah 33:9): also  to the new creation which takes place in the believer in Christ Jesus. We also share in the groaning of creation, for we wait for our resurrection, when we will receive our resurrection bodies, and be free from the corruption that exists within our mortal bodies because of the entry of sin, and from it's consequences (death), which is the cause of the groan of all creation, isn't it?

Quote
So lets have a look at the following scripture you quoted.

'And God said, Let us make man (mankind) in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man (Adam) in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them.'
(Gen 1:26,27)

So lets look at the first part of the above I don't think Mankind has ever been transformed into the image of God as yet but this is Gods will for Mankind.
There is no reason to believe that God could possibly fail and we who believe Know that mankind in Gods Image will be realised in Christ.
As for the last part.

'So God created man (Adam) in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them.
'

(Gen 1:26,27)

This has not bean realised as yet it will be when Christ Jesus our Lord is united with all those who belong to him then the first part of the text will be fulfilled.
some will say God spoke man into existence in one day and this may be true if just concerns a human being but man ( mankind ) in Gods image is an entirely different thing.

* Dave, Gen 1:26,27, quoted above, is a complete statement in itself, isn't it?  God created Adam in His own image (it was done).  The entry of sin marred that image, man became a moral ruin; but some physical likeness to our Creator still remains, the similitude was never lost.  For it is referred to subsequently as a statement of fact in the present tense.  See, Gen.9:6; 1 Cor. 11:7; James 3:9 :-

'Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
for in the image of God made he man.'

(Gen 9:6) 

'For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:
but the woman is the glory of the man.'

(1Cor. 11:7)
 
'Therewith bless we God, even the Father;
and therewith curse we men,
which are made after the similitude of God.'

(Jas 3:9)

Quote
we may also consider the creation of Eve.

Gen 2:21  And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22  And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25  And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

This is very reminiscent of the creation of the church don't you think Adam slept Christ Died eve was created out of Adams side out of our Lords side flowed the water and the blood out of which the church was created which is Christs Eve his helper.

Love and Peace
Dave

* Yes, I see what you are saying here, Dave, but cannot take it on board, because the Church is not Christ's 'Eve'.  It is part of Christ Himself, as His Body.

-----------------------

* Looking at Genesis 3:7, '. and the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.'  Adam and Eve knew that they were 'naked' prior to this, they had knowledge of that fact, yet now their knowledge received new meaning, Adam becomes 'naked' by losing something of His Creators glorious likeness, which was sinlessness.  He was no longer innocent.

Praise God! For His provision in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

'... ... God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

(Rom 8:3b,4) 

Thank you again, Dave.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2016, 02:54:14 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply you said

Quote
What you have quoted, Dave, relate to God's original creation, which is groaning still: see (Joel 1:10-20; Jer. 12:4; Isaiah 33:9): also  to the new creation which takes place in the believer in Christ Jesus. We also share in the groaning of creation, for we wait for our resurrection, when we will receive our resurrection bodies, and be free from the corruption that exists within our mortal bodies because of the entry of sin, and from it's consequences (death), which is the cause of the groan of all creation, isn't it?
 
There is only one creation in three parts it has not bean completed as yet but it will be finished in the millennial reign of Christ.

Quote
  Dave, Gen 1:26,27, quoted above, is a complete statement in itself, isn't it?  God created Adam in His own image (it was done).  The entry of sin marred that image, man became a moral ruin; but some physical likeness to our Creator still remains, the similitude was never lost.  For it is referred to subsequently as a statement of fact in the present tense.  See, Gen.9:6; 1 Cor. 11:7; James 3:9 :-
 

Why would we assume that we know God is outside of time as we know it when he says lets make mankind in our image for him it's a done deal he sees the end from the beginning he knows exactly what is going to happen and when he knew about the fall before it happened and had a plan in place to rectify it.

Quote
Dave, Gen 1:26,27, quoted above, is a complete statement in itself, isn't it   


It dose not matter if it's complete or not what I am saying it has never bean completed Man in Gods image is Christ How could God say

 Gen 1:31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

If he knew the fall was just around the corner.

Quote
  Dave, Gen 1:26,27, quoted above, is a complete statement in itself, isn't it?  God created Adam in His own image (it was done).  The entry of sin marred that image, man became a moral ruin; but some physical likeness to our Creator still remains, the similitude was never lost.  For it is referred to subsequently as a statement of fact in the present tense.  See, Gen.9:6; 1 Cor. 11:7; James 3:9 :-
 

I don't believe that I as a Man bares any resemblance to God at all these verses you Quoted.

 'Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
for in the image of God made he man.'
(Gen 9:6) 

'For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:
but the woman is the glory of the man.'
(1Cor. 11:7)
 
'Therewith bless we God, even the Father;
and therewith curse we men,
which are made after the similitude of God.'
(Jas 3:9)

I think refer either to Christ or Israel they are are the only ones created in Gods image.

Quote
Yes, I see what you are saying here, Dave, but cannot take it on board, because the Church is not Christ's 'Eve'.  It is part of Christ Himself, as His Body.
   
I have to disagree sorry but as the first Adam had a helper so dose the last Adam need a helper for Israel it was the priesthood.
At the present time the church ( Eve ) and  her Adam are separated but she has bean endowed with the Holy Spirit but when they are united they become one which will be Man in the image of God.

Love and Peace
Dave 


 

 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2016, 04:29:27 PM »
Hi
Well it seams I have lost my sparring partner I'm very sorry to say I'm not sure why may be my post's are to boring and lack interest but I shall plod on I do feel exploring the scripture is a profitable use of time.

We were looking at man in Gods image Lets look again what God said.

 Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said " and let them have dominion " who are them if God is one and man is in his image how can there be a them.
Unless of course God is the same as Christ and his church God is the Head and his angles the body seams to make sense if Christ united with his church is the image of God then God must be the image of Christ and his church.

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2017, 02:30:21 PM »
Hi
Moving on to the next verse

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Is man in Gods image both male and female it would seam so from the above and we have this from St Paul

Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Is the man referred to here Christ his father and mother Israel his wife the church, they becoming one is still a future event.
Isn't it great we are told these thing's from the beginning.

 Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

When Israel rejected Christ Israel was rejected ( Adam died) the above text then applied to Christ and his church.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2017, 01:23:15 AM »
Well when you marry someone, you do not see the pain their caused or the aggro their were to their parents...

No - you only see the person you fell in Love with [as a husband in rhis case - Or it can also be a womb - man] - yet as years go on you begin to realise your partner "Bride" has some nagging ritual /religious/persistent things that annoy you so badly and don't you love it....

[All those years when God was Father are forgiven] He has made those years "If if They Never Happened" This is God's Grace - God's Redemption At Christ's Expense as in the same way a husband marries the Bride [without seeing her faults]

You see : God loved the Jewish nation without taking into account all her faults - He loved her because She was chosen by Him as a Bride... He forgot all her past and gave Her new hope and waited for her to to respond [Song of solomon] Song of Solomon 7:6

A mother does not just have birth pains at birth and neither a father [depending on their ways and depending whether they actually father or mother their children] Hebrews 12:8

The birth pains continue as the child grows [in the Womb - "womb -man" Galatians 4:19  with genuine parents.


These mundane every day things that drive you mad .... [once married]

This is when you see the image that you fell in Love with and decide to stay with - because you simply cannot live without the person you once saw and have witnessed and know ..

These in a way are the "thorn of Paul"  [The Jews]

My image here @davetaff is not of Christ - but yet I yearn to be like Him and this is my discovery and yearning and groaning/seeking/ and this He see's [or not as the case may be]

Some may convey the image of the Christ - yet others seek too


Now lets look at the two boys Fathered in the story of the prodigal sons.....

One was a perfect son [so he thought] the other was not a perfect son...

Both were made in the image of their earthly father..

Which one was accepted back by the Father and which one remianed with the Father ?

Which one was saved and which one did'nt need saving ?  Mark 2:17

This is a metaphor that falls after a few more lines of scripture.

A picture/metaphor  only exists within certain contexts depending on the scripture/place and time/ in a perons life and can only be relayed to someone who is open to that image at that time.

Most Christians convey this as "the Holy Spirit speaking" when in fact it is simply the Holy Spirit speaking to them through scripture.







Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2017, 02:48:02 PM »
Hi Q
Thanks for your reply a lot to take on board not sure I understand every thing will do my best to answer what I can.

Quote
Well when you marry someone, you do not see the pain their caused or the aggro their were to their parents...

No - you only see the person you fell in Love with [as a husband in rhis case - Or it can also be a womb - man] - yet as years go on you begin to realise your partner "Bride" has some nagging ritual /religious/persistent things that annoy you so badly and don't you love it....

[All those years when God was Father are forgiven] He has made those years "If if They Never Happened" This is God's Grace - God's Redemption At Christ's Expense as in the same way a husband marries the Bride [without seeing her faults]
   

Well the old adage is true Love is Blind from someone who's been married over 50 years.

Quote
You see : God loved the Jewish nation without taking into account all her faults - He loved her because She was chosen by Him as a Bride... He forgot all her past and gave Her new hope and waited for her to to respond [Song of solomon] Song of Solomon 7:6   

Yes God Chose Israel then out of Israel he Chose the Levies to be priests I think the Levites were the bride the people the children. 
I also think the Song of Solomon also should be applied to Christ and his Church The church being all those chosen by God through the ages through them we are reborn and become children of God.

Gal 4:19  My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Here we see Paul calling the Galatians little children And I think this passage from revelations is about the children.

 Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Cariad

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Re: Genesis (the seed-plot of the whole Bible) and Revelation compared
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »
Hi
Well it seems I have lost my sparring partner, I'm very sorry to say I'm not sure why may be my post's are to boring and lack interest but I shall plod on I do feel exploring the scripture is a profitable use of time.

We were looking at man in Gods image Lets look again what God said.

 Gen_1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said " and let them have dominion " who are them if God is one and man is in his image how can there be a them.
Unless of course God is the same as Christ and his church God is the Head and his angles the body seams to make sense if Christ united with his church is the image of God then God must be the image of Christ and his church.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

* Your 'sparring partner' is back! :)
* I agree that there is no better use of our time, than in searching the Scriptures. So let's go on from where we left off.

'And God said,
"Let us make man in our image,
after our likeness:

.. and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
.... and over the fowl of the air,
...... and over the cattle,
........ and over all the earth,
.......... and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in His own image,
in the image of God created He Him
;
male and female created He them.'

( Gen 1:26,27 ) 

* I do praise God for His Word, it is so precise and all encompassing, isn't it, Dave?
* I will look now at your comments and respond to them, if I can.

Quote
God said " and let them have dominion " who are them if God is one and man is in his image how can there be a them.
Unless of course God is the same as Christ and his church God is the Head and his angles the body seams to make sense if Christ united with his church is the image of God then God must be the image of Christ and his church.

* '... let them have dominion ... ' - I believe the, 'them' referred to is, 'mankind'.  For God's purpose for Adam and Eve is that they should multiply( Gen 1:28 ) 

'And God blessed them,
and God said unto them,
"Be fruitful, and multiply,
.. and replenish the earth,
.... and subdue it:
...... and have dominion over the fish of the sea,
........ and over the fowl of the air,
.......... and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.'


* God speaks in plural terms when He says in verse 26, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... '[/i][/b], or rather, 'in the likeness of our image', for it is not two things but one.
 
* The words, 'Let us', leaves us in no doubt that God is not alone in this creative purpose, Praise His Name!.  For God had taken creature form in order to create, as we see in Col. 1:15; Rev 3:14b, (see also: Heb. 1:1-8 )

'Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by Him were all things created,
that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by Him, and for Him:
And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
'

(Col 1:13-17)

' ... These things saith the Amen,
the faithful and true witness,
the beginning of the creation of God; ... '

(Rev 3:14b)

'Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,
whom He hath appointed Heir of all things,
by Whom also He made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of His glory,
.. and the express image of his person,
.... and upholding all things by the word of His power,
when He had by Himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels,
as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they.'

(Heb 1:2-4) 

*How wonderful this is, isn't it Dave?

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad