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Offline Christianna

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Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« on: September 19, 2016, 06:05:03 PM »
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July 5, 2010

This is to do with end times, and among my favourite topics. This is described as es chat ology. A word I have difficulty in pronouncing. Lets chat "ology"- eschatology.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because I was taught views that fit the amillennium views and only recently have seen views that fit the premillennium views. Therefore I want to say that somethings may be considered secondary in comparison to what is important. For it is certain that Jesus rose from the dead and offers us eternal life, and that is a crucial message and over anything else.

There is nothing I or anyone can do to earn eternal life. For its what Christ has done for us. When we place our life in His hands in Him, who is our Creator, and not in the hands of ourselves and in creation.

This is not a religious statement. This is truth and something that touches me deep within and wherever I am. This is with me in my every day life, whether at work, home, at church or at the bus stop. Countless others could say the same as well.

Anyhows I'm talking about end times now, and I don't know everything about it and don't know exactly how its all going to happen but I study the bible and what others say as well as listen to God to find out.

I believe that the term millenium is an external 'extrinsic' term, and related to society and the world, and dont believe it is an 'intrinsic' internal term.

It can be refering to the time of Jesus reign on earth, in the future. Generally and usually its a term used in refering to the start of the millenium, thats already gone and believe that is what was meant in interactions, but still is remembering that Jesus came to the earth over 2000 years ago and His Holy Spirit is with us now.

There are specific things like the thousand years, which are mentioned in Revelations 20 and I cannot make statements over this being literal or symbolic. I cannot establish an absolute opinion. Yet I actually think the thousand years are literal now.

Why?

I know there are at least 3 views on this, being amillennium, post millennium and pre millenium. I don't know much about the post millennium views but a bit about the other 2 views.

The amillenniumists view the thousand years to be symbolic, and not literal and occuring now. I read somewhere that a thousand is believed to represent fullness and eternity to some. For example, Peter says in the bible about the Lord not being slow and a thousand years and a day are the same to Him.

The amillenniumist views Revelations 20 to be symbolic. In verse 8 there is a mention of satan being let loose, which could be parallel to the coming of the antichrist. Otherwise there is suggestion that the world will be deceived twice. The second time being when Jesus rules the earth and after His second coming. There is mention of Resurrection in Revelations 20 and I think the amillenniumists usually view this as new life being breathed into them, in a spiritual context in this scripture.They also believe in a physical Resurrection, which is very much in the bible, both in old and new testament scriptures.

I think that for a long time I took this view but then I didn't really think about the thousand years in Revelations much and didn't think about the whole scripture in Revelations 20.

I read the prophetic books of the bible and saw very exciting and glorious times ahead. What emerged to me was an era that didn't fit now and didn't fit the completion of eternity either. Therefore I questioned when those events will take place.

I can say now, having seen the pre millennium views that there does appear to be a millennium era, that fits those prophetic books, as well as Revelations 20.

Coming back to Revelations 20, I am now thinking about where it says that the devil will be bound and so he can't deceive the nations. The amillenniumists believes this to be symbolic for now. Just that doesn't make sense to be symbolic because the devil is deceiving the nations. The deceit is increasing with frequency and intensity and certainly in the last hundred years but occured before as well. Unless the amillenniumists view this deceit to be the extent it will be when the antichrist comes.

The physical Resurrection means being raised from the dead and there is nothing symbolic about the Resurrection of Christ and other mentions of physical Resurrections. Though Resurrection does occur in a spiritual context as well. It appears to be meant in a physical context in Revelations 20.

I am remembering now a conversation I had with a friend about two years ago, where we discussed Isaiah 65:20. This was about the new heavens and earth and in verse 20, it says the sinner who dies at a hundred will be accursed.

We found that strange because we thought that there would be no more sin or death. My friend suggested that there could be a transistory stage, and yes I think so, and especially now. This verse in Isaiah can easily be misunderstood....but

there are many other scriptures that fit a millenium era.

There is the mention of God's people having children. I don't quite know how this fits, as we are also told there will be no marriage, in Matthew 22:29-31, Luke 20:27-40.

This is referred to the Resurrection and we have new bodies. 1 Corinthians 15:35-55. Yet the scriptures are mentioning children being born and animals procreating. I believe this but don't know how it will occur. There are scriptures with this. Some clear examples are: Isaiah 65:23 They shall not labour in vain or bear children for calamity,for they shall be the offspring of the Lord and their descendants with them. Isaiah 11:7-8 The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. This will be a glorious age,with some very wonderful changes. Yet it seems that sin and death are in the process of being defeated because it still appears to be remaining to some but not everyone. This fits death (physical)being the last enemy to be destroyed and being under the feet of Christ. Then eternity being complete. 1 Corinthians 15:26,Revelations 20:7-15.

Therefore I can see a millennium era and a transistory time. This is with powers and principalities of darkness being bound. 1 Corinthians 15:24, Revelations 20:1-3. This will be the time when many people of faith in Christ will see the fulfillment of the promises God gave them,Hebrews 11. This is without powers and principalities of darkness,without fallen natures and a world being renewed. For during this time, Jesus will be perfecting creation,Hebrews 11:40. He will change the laws of nature and people and animals will not hunt animals for food.

Hosea 2:18, I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field,the birds of the heavens and the creepy things on the ground.And I will abolish the bow,the sword and war from the land and I will make you lie down in safety.

Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb and the leopard shall lie with the young goat and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze,their young shall lie down together and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.They shall not hunt or destroy in all my Holy mountain.For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters covers the sea.
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together,the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Jesus will bring true peace to the nations.Zechariah 9:10 He shall speak peace to the nations.His rule shall be from sea to sea, and from river to the ends of the earth.

This is true peace for the glorious future. I often think that the most severe divisons occur now,where there will be a special unity in the future. For dark powers will do this. As well as produce false christless unities. Peace is false when its human. Its flawed and masks inquity of the heart. 1 Thessalonians 5:3, Psalm 28:3. These scriptures are referring to Christ centred peace,not human peace. Here is an example of divisions Christ will resolve.

Isaiah 19:23-24 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria,and Assyria to Egypt and the egyptians will worship with the assyrians. In that day Israel will be the third with Egypt and Assyria,a blessing in the midst of the earth, when the Lord of Hosts has blessed, saying "Blessed be Egypt my people,and Assyria the work of my hand."

Jesus will settle disputes between nations.
Micah 4:1-4 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the Mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established at the highest mountains,and it shall be lifted up above the hills and peoples shall flow to it,and many nations shall come and say:
" Come,let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,to the house of Jacob,that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths.For out of Zion shall go forth the law and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.He shall judge between many peoples and shall decide for strong nations afar off and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks.Nation shall not lift up sword to nation neither shall they learn war any more,but they shall sit everyone under his vine and under his fig tree,and no one shall make them afraid for the mouth of the Lord has spoken."

There will be an end to poverty and injustice. Malachi:3:5 "Then I will draw near to you for judgement.I will be a swift witness against sorcerers,against the adulterers,against those who swear falsely,against those who oppress the hired workers in his wages,the widow and the fatherless,against those who thrust aside the sojourner and do not fear me,says the Lord."

Isaiah 65:21-22 They shall build houses and inhabit them,they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit. They shall not plant and another eats.
Isaiah 11:3-4 He shall not judge by what His eyes see or decide disputes by what His ears hear but with righteousness He shall judge the poor and decide with equity for the meek of the earth. These are some of the scriptures that have influenced me to see what fits a millennium era. I feel as well that its important to mention that we are in deceptive days now,where much of these promises are being imitated in preparation for the antichrist.

 There will be the counterfeit new age before Christ brings in the true new age.
The bible mentions the world waxing cold,and deceit going from bad to worse. I am seeing a famine of God's Word and Spirit and changes in my lifetime. The gospel is not taught in schools and even disrespected. There is an increase of Politicians who are disrespecting the Word of God. There are some who do value the Word of God and there are also revivals in Asia. I nevertheless see a falling away. I believe that its essential for a leader to be God fearing,to receive His anointing to lead the country the way God wants and influence the citizens to trust the Lord and respect and obey His Word. For the Lord will withdraw away and the country will lose the Lord's protection and Blessing, that was so unnoticed and unappreciated.

The Lord has been showing me the changes in my lifetime,and changes from a few centuries ago. There were more politicians who trusted God and respected His Word. The music and art work was popular when it was biblical as well. Therefore I believe we are in days where people are cold and open to being deceived to the imitations I mentioned. If we turn to Christ He will deliver us from the darkness and give us His Light,which reveals all truth.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

Offline Goaty

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 07:02:47 PM »
Were the last two mileniums literature or symbolic? By the same way as these will be the millennium mentioned in the Bible.

Cariad

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 09:13:46 PM »
Hello @Primrose,

I have avoided the 'pre', 'post' and 'a', debate, and will continue to do so. :)
However, I do believe the millennium to be literal.

I want to print off your OP and look at it carefully, Primrose, but hope to come back and talk with you further on this at another time (God willing).

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline Christianna

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 09:23:54 PM »
Thank you @Cariad

I had written this a few years ago and thought you and @davetaff might be interested.
I will be away for a while soon ( next week )and will be very busy and explaining if Im not around.

Hope at some point to be discussing this with you

Cariad

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 09:32:51 PM »
Hello @Primrose,

Just a few thoughts before I read your OP properly.

You will agree I know that all that is positively stated in the Scriptures on the subject will be found in Revelation 10:1-10.  All other descriptions, promises, or characteristics are introduced into this period by inference, rightly or wrongly, but by inference only.

These 10 verses speak of that period as the first thousand years of a kingdom, which, commencing with the coming of Christ and the end of Gentile dominion, goes unbroken (it shall never be destroyed, and shall never pass away, Dan. 2:44; Dan. 7:14 & 27) until the Son having put all things under His feet (for He 'must reign' until this is accomplished 1Cor.15:15,16, which reaches to the Great White Throne judgment and beyond), delivers up the kingdom to God, even the Father, that God may be all in all'. This is the reign of Christ, the Millennial reign being but a portion of it, and possibly a small portion at that.  All that the Scriptures say in Revelation 20 about a Millennium are the words, 'the thousand years'

I shall come back (God willing)
After reading your OP properly.

Thank you, Primrose.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Online davetaff

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 05:15:18 PM »
Hi primrose
There's a lot to get our teeth I to here thought I'd start with what the scripture has to say

Vision of the Millennial Reign

 1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key to the bottomless pit, with a large chain in his hand.

 2  He captured the dragon, that ancient serpent, also known as the devil and Satan, and tied him up for a thousand years.

 3  He threw him into the bottomless pit, locked it, and sealed it over him to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were over. After that, he must be set free for a little while.

The Vision of the First Resurrection

 4  Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came back to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years.

 5  The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.

 6  How blessed and holy are those who participate in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them. They will be priests of God and the Messiah, and will rule with him for a thousand years.

It seam plain to me that Christ will riegn with his bride for a 1000 years the question is over whom.

Love and peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2016, 12:19:30 PM »
It seam plain to me that Christ will riegn with his bride for a 1000 years the question is over whom.

We will reign over those who come out of the great Tribulation. ie. "Those who remain to the end shall be saved", and that doesn't mean born again but that they survive the terrible plagues and wars.
There has to be flesh and blood humanity still remaining to procreate and fill the earth.
If we reign with Christ, it is not to reign over each other, but over those on the rest of earth.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Online davetaff

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Re: Is the millenium literal or symbolic?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 05:13:11 PM »
We will reign over those who come out of the great Tribulation. ie. "Those who remain to the end shall be saved", and that doesn't mean born again but that they survive the terrible plagues and wars.
There has to be flesh and blood humanity still remaining to procreate and fill the earth.
If we reign with Christ, it is not to reign over each other, but over those on the rest of earth.

Hi Frances
Thanks for that reply I can agree with it the next question is what is it's purpose besides procreation I take it this is the rule with the rod of Iron.
will it be a time of education in the word of God producing more born again Christians I hope so and will it be a time of resurrection I was thinking of.

 Mat 19:30  But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

The last here those who come through the tribulation and the first going back through all the ages who are sleeping.

Love and Peace
Dave 

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