Author Topic: Does the future depend on us or God ?  (Read 1760 times)

Description: Is our future dependant on God or us

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Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2016, 09:56:22 AM »
well that is the core of this argument - whether we chose to follow God's Will or our's .


And so you must expect your future to be contolled by God once you give it to God..

If you take control then that is your descision.. [and this is where we walk in and out if God's will]

I do not get the argument here...

Of course you  are in control if you take control.
Control is the wrong word. God wants people who desire to walk with him, not being dragged kicking and screaming.
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This  makes no difference to my eternal destiny [as  you are targeting those who are already destined  into eternity I do not get the point of including when they [in their relationship with God]  chose to to walk and out of God's Will ?
Nobody is arguing whether, as a reborn son of the highest, that you might lose your eternal destiny are they?
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And obviously if you give your future to God then He is in control [as long as you continue to give Him the government of your life]

If you never gave your life to Jesus then obviously your desicion depends on your own will
Despite all the above, below is what you said previously, and it is that which I utterly repudiate because it has no biblical support.
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What I am saying is this - "born again" or salvation is and never was due to my response...
This is contradicted by the above, so have you changed your mind or is this still your claim?

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2016, 11:57:05 AM »
Control is the wrong word. God wants people who desire to walk with him, not being dragged kicking and screaming.Nobody is arguing whether, as a reborn son of the highest, that you might lose your eternal destiny are they?Despite all the above, below is what you said previously, and it is that which I utterly repudiate because it has no biblical support.This is contradicted by the above, so have you changed your mind or is this still your claim?

 knit:  give me time

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2016, 12:35:11 PM »
Cannot remember whether I was giving an alternative argument or responding to a previous post, I will have to go back and take a look, let me finish painting this wall and I,ll have a look later.

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2016, 01:38:05 PM »
Cannot remember whether I was giving an alternative argument or responding to a previous post, I will have to go back and take a look, let me finish painting this wall and I,ll have a look later.

When you've done that wall, can you come and do mine. I've stripped the lining paper already.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2016, 12:23:07 AM »
This was a response about us saving ourselves or creating our own born again life [by response to God]


Now you are stating that all this is very simple.

But consider a fetus in a womb which is developing but being created in a way that has defects [eg: a wrong development]

This baby may be stopped from being in communication with God due to a defect [while in the womb]

Now this persons only hope is that God will have mercy and grace.

And none of your choices or desicions.

Not to forget those who are unable to comunicate '[due to some of the above mentioned]



You might suggest that this was not applicable in bilbical times and this is all diue to inherited sin or demons

but this is simply a baby developing in a womb "unable to choose and make desicions" [thus none of us are perfect]

Get my drift ? I hope you do...

If not then may my desicion to post this - at least cause a barrier to your response [thus you now find a defect in my response and therfore I have denied God's blessing or even a response from God]

What I am saying is this - "born again" or salvation is and never was due to my response...

I will now let you disagree with this [as if it was for me to speak on behalf of God
]


Ahh this was a response given as [an alternative  view , that some people might have regarding]   - salvation and born again [having a child that has comminication problems ...

But in my mind at this time was a "still born child" never being able to have the option or choice of he or she wanted to follow God or follow the world.

Having been born he or she never had life..-

I did not include this - as I was being sensitive towards those who have suffered loss [never having known the child - although God did and does or will]


I was feeling my way through a vast subject [which includes emotion / death / loss / life and  grief.

So here never having a Saviour  or parent, we now consider God making the desicion.

Also I remember as a child "that God spoke to me many times" and these things turned out to be true .


I have no idea when I entered eternity "as only God knows this"

So how can I walk in and out of eternity .....hope that is a good enough answer - as I have now run out of time again..



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2016, 12:28:01 AM »
Indeed following this concept [of I have the power to decide above God] I would assume now - that God decides who is born and who is not.....

As this is not in our hands or theirs - but God's

If I am now born, be it with a defect, then  I must now assume it was my fault and not God's

Hope you get this argument ?

As if I am born yet born again [this has no refercne to me but God and His Will !

Now if I am born and alive but with a disabilty this is either God or me or satan.

You see the response to God will always fail at some point [unless of course you are going to say that the spirits have communication with God and can be saved or born again - due to their response]

Response giving someone a "born again" or temporal salvation state will faill at some point also - as it will rely on us and not God [I am purposely responding in an alternative view to cause an argument - which to some is a day by day experience]

Nothing is impossible for God and only He can save or make someone a child [once a child their desicions change His Mind ? ]

Now we are arguing the "once saved always saved theatre scenario"

I hope you get this post [if the plaster comes off the wall it is due to using a steam machine ...always use water and a scraper [just a tip] and let the water do the job.






Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2016, 12:46:13 AM »
So I am firing  different  arguments at you [whether you understand these arguments may only be due to your experience]

This has no reflecton on my own belief - but merely purging a response.   :)



Now come on [why are'nt you responding at 1.30am in the morning  ? is'nt your brain able to work at this time ?] "Goes back  to knitting  knit:"









Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2016, 09:27:58 AM »
Also I remember as a child "that God spoke to me many times" and these things turned out to be true .
I have no idea when I entered eternity "as only God knows this"
From a non christian family, I heard the Lord as a child many years before I heard the gospel or knew what the cross was about.
Before being evangelised in my mid 20s, I already knew that God lived in my heart not church buildings, and I knew that eternal life was not earned by being good, but was free gift.

My wife at the age of 3 had third heaven experiences like Paul mentions.

I have questioned many people who originally met the Lord in ways like this, then later in life making a profession of faith which is misleadingly ascribed as their point of new birth.
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So how can I walk in and out of eternity .....hope that is a good enough answer - as I have now run out of time again..

I don't believe we can walk in and out of eternity. We just walk in and out of fellowship.

In my belief, once we are reborn of the Holy Spirit, we are a child of God for better or worse for eternity.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)