Author Topic: Does the future depend on us or God ?  (Read 1387 times)

Description: Is our future dependant on God or us

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 01:01:30 AM »
Do you think that was temporal salvation or eternal assurance regarding Nineveh ?

I mean God chose Saul as King but was sorry that He had anointed Saul or like Ananias amd saphira for example

As not all   instances of repentance lead to eternal life as with Adam and Eve;

Like not all change means that we have eternal security.

As it seems to rely on our earthly choices in some instamces but on God's eternal plan in others


Hope that makes sense "if not then ignore me"


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 01:18:33 AM »


I mean did Adam and Eve ever repent ? Yet it seems  they were redeemed to eternal status [yet they died an earthly death

The unwritten word may well show us more  - but the written word only states that Adam and Eve tried to hide themselves.

It might be suggested that in this case "it was for the sake of mankind" and was only a once off incident. !


As this seems the only way out of this conundrum,.








Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 01:43:08 AM »
I mean what choice did Adan and Eve have regarding their future ?

Straight away you may say that the future is now decided by God for mankind - in which we must repent to be saved - but saved from what = death or eternal death ?

Well if Adam and Eve were saved to erternal life  [before the Lamb was slain]  then surely this would be symolic of future generations !

But nay "we must repent and be baptised to be saved "

get my drift ?


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 01:48:43 AM »
Did Job ever have a choice as to whether he went through the attacks from satan or not ? [I do not think so] as it was more  about his responses to the situaton he was in.

Yet these attacks are seen as a testing by God [and allowed by Him} it is almost as if He owns the attacker and authorises it to be .

Yet He makes it a testing rather than an attack for His glory

He authorises the attack to be a testing [without our consent]  but with God's consent

Here I do not see the future of Job in his hands - but in God's, as God gives double back.

Unless of course yet again you see this story of a perons life as an individual entity and only applying to Job.

As in the case of Adam and Eve - so here we segment the bible into parts.





Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 02:18:35 AM »
So obviously - in stephen's case he must have chosen to be stoned to death !

I do not think so and I do not think it was his desicion either.

Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."


I think in this case stephen would have preferred to be like John and to be the beloved disciple umm not sure as John was left on an island as a prisoner and boiled in oil .

It seems our future's are not dependent on us ..... and our decisions have no relation to our destinies.

Here the disciples gave their futures  to God - only to find a destiny  that they would not have decided themselves.

As I am also sure the disciple Paul would not have chosen house imprisonment  and it seems doing the will of the lord means a denial of self

In all these instances God is in control of the future and not the people

It seems the defining differnece here is that the more people give their lives to God - the more God takes control of their lives - going against their own desires.

I see this all through the bible

And concluding with the book of revelations whiuch goes against the will of mankind  - to destroy and  make a new earth.

Matthew 24:38  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

I think this would be against the peoples will's and choices - I mean if I am just married or getting married  why would I be denied a future with my new family ...


On the other hand - I might decide to rebel and go my own way and in this sense I am my own god and I decide my future.

Hope you get it ?









Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2016, 09:46:02 PM »
Do you think that was temporal salvation or eternal assurance regarding Nineveh ?
One of the biggest delusions of the church is that salvation equates to "Heaven when you're dead".
Nowhere do we find this in the OT, and rarely do we find it in the NT.
So yes, salvation for Nineveh was temporal.
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I mean God chose Saul as King but was sorry that He had anointed Saul or like Ananias amd saphira for example
What happened to King Saul, or Ananias and Sapphira doesn't necessarily reflect on their eternal state.
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As not all   instances of repentance lead to eternal life as with Adam and Eve;
I don't understand Q. I'm not sure whether you are seeing them as born again or not.
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Like not all change means that we have eternal security.
True
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As it seems to rely on our earthly choices in some instamces but on God's eternal plan in others
I don't know what this means. I don't accept that God decides who to give eternal life to.
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Hope that makes sense "if not then ignore me"
You're not getting away with that, explain yourself man!!!!!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2016, 09:53:09 PM »

I mean did Adam and Eve ever repent ? Yet it seems  they were redeemed to eternal status [yet they died an earthly death
They taught the kids about redemption, otherwise Abel would not have sacrificed animals, especially as they were all veggies till after the flood.
 Heb11v4By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
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The unwritten word may well show us more  - but the written word only states that Adam and Eve tried to hide themselves.
True, but as above, they passed the truth down the family.
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It might be suggested that in this case "it was for the sake of mankind" and was only a once off incident. !
I don't believe God perverts his own principles.
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As this seems the only way out of this conundrum,.
I can't see any conundrum...............................big word at this late hour.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2016, 09:58:40 PM »
I mean what choice did Adan and Eve have regarding their future ?
They could have kept on running
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Straight away you may say that the future is now decided by God for mankind - in which we must repent to be saved - but saved from what = death or eternal death ?

Well if Adam and Eve were saved to erternal life  [before the Lamb was slain]  then surely this would be symolic of future generations !
But Jesus is the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth..............as demonstrated by Jesus killing a sheep in the garden and draping its bloody skin over Adam and Eve.
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But nay "we must repent and be baptised to be saved "

get my drift ?
Sort of, but repenting and being baptised is about salvation working in our life on earth, not heaven when you're dead.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)