Author Topic: Does the future depend on us or God ?  (Read 1769 times)

Description: Is our future dependant on God or us

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2016, 01:14:01 AM »
I am tryng to stretch your concept here.


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Again, no such thing. There is always a choice. We are not talking about great works, but the starting place of a simple acceptance of God as He woes our heart (even if still in the womb). The anointed works that a foreseeing and foreknowing God might plan for us would always be in perfect reach of our ability.

Ok so a fetus can be born again and have a knowledge of God Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.


But what if I am born now with  turrets or other communication problems such as a  Neurological Disorder or Congenital Brain Defect ? to mention just a few symptoms [the bible mentions many healings - but not things that stop us communicating. [although I might suggest leprosy where a person is seen as "outside of society". [outcasts]

So what I am opening up to you is a new vision of a person who cannot relate in the way you relate or communicate in the way you can communicate.



Okay so lets start again "What you are saying here is that it all depends on our reactions .

And communications with God ?"

My angle here is to say "NO"

Otherwise it would null and void the people of God mentioned above.

For although they are always going to be "born again" as was "John the baptist in Mary's womb [see the blessing upon his life which ends in a beheading]

These people mentioned above would miss out on the blessing of God becaue of thier inability to communicate

hope that makes sense [ I am simply coming from a differrent angle here]






Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2016, 01:22:37 AM »
In  this case reactions and choices may not apply - so what I am suggesting  is "this automatically gives them a disadvantage"

Now God works to help the disadvantaged - so where does your concept work in this ?

As in this topic you are seeing everyone with the same brush stroke

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2016, 01:25:08 AM »

I hope you get my drfit here  as we discover all the variants of communication with God and our future [depending on Him - but always reliant on us]

What I am saying is that not "all babies are born perfect"


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2016, 01:33:31 AM »
Now you are stating that all this is very simple.

But consider a fetus in a womb which is developing but being created in a way that has defects [eg: a wrong development]

This baby may be stopped from being in communication with God due to a defect [while in the womb]

Now this persons only hope is that God will have mercy and grace.

And none of your choices or desicions.

Not to forget those who are unable to comunicate '[due to some of the above mentioned]



You might suggest that this was not applicable in bilbical times and this is all diue to inherited sin or demons

but this is simply a baby developing in a womb "unable to choose and make desicions" [thus none of us are perfect]

Get my drift ? I hope you do...

If not then may my desicion to post this - at least cause a barrier to your response [thus you now find a defect in my response and therfore I have denied God's blessing or even a response from God]

What I am saying is this - "born again" or salvation is and never was due to my response...

I will now let you disagree with this [as if it was for me to speak on behalf of God]







Offline Seeker

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2016, 10:34:01 AM »
Whenever God intervenes, you will find that somewhere along the way, you have given permission.

That permission includes the likes of singing hymns. If we sing "Jesus is Lord", or proclaim "I surrender all" then we have given him permission.
However when he starts doing things, we all too frequently withdraw that permission by various kneejerk reactions against what is now happening and perhaps run the opposite way like Jonah.
As with Jonah, if God so wishes, he already has our permission to chase after us.

Christians never make it easy for God.

Unfortunately christians, by foolish words, also make it very easy for demons to offer assistance!

Something I picked up from a church I was looking around last month;

'Do not ask GOD to guide your footsteps... if you're NOT willing to MOVE your FEET.'

I suppose along the lines of the discussion I am seeing though, what if it is not a case of not being willing, but a case of not being able to?

There is certainly much to ponder in this thread.

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2016, 10:54:17 AM »
I am tryng to stretch your concept here.
Thanks Q, I truly love the challenges of good spiritual conversation.
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Ok so a fetus can be born again and have a knowledge of God Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.


But what if I am born now with  turrets or other communication problems such as a  Neurological Disorder or Congenital Brain Defect ? to mention just a few symptoms [the bible mentions many healings - but not things that stop us communicating. [although I might suggest leprosy where a person is seen as "outside of society". [outcasts]

So what I am opening up to you is a new vision of a person who cannot relate in the way you relate or communicate in the way you can communicate.
The Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit, not our intellect. Thus a fetus can respond easier than an adult. The same is true for imbeciles even.
1Cor1v26For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;

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Okay so lets start again "What you are saying here is that it all depends on our reactions .

And communications with God ?"

My angle here is to say "NO"
I suspect you are differentiating between being born again as the starting point of spiritual life, and following that, the ongoing process of walking in God's inheritance of blessings.
If that differentiation is the case, then that's also what I have been trying to spell out.

As far as I am concerned, walking in the blessings of God is the true definition of "Salvation" and of being "saved".
ie. People can be born again and have virtually no experience of "salvation".
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Otherwise it would null and void the people of God mentioned above.


For although they are always going to be "born again" as was "John the baptist in Mary's womb [see the blessing upon his life which ends in a beheading]
These people mentioned above would miss out on the blessing of God becaue of thier inability to communicate

hope that makes sense [ I am simply coming from a differrent angle here]
There will always be those who don't get the full blessings because of circumstances.
There was an amazing American military chaplain who was called to the Nuremberg trials. He led quite a number of very evil but truly repentant Nazis to Christ in the weeks before their executions. In that time they began to experience the love of God for the first time in their lives and went to their deaths in true Godly peace. In the circumstances, that peace was above and beyond any other blessing they could have.

If a child is born with major physical or mental disabilities, then God works with them at the level they are at. That is why we see these stories of blind or deaf or mentally difficient children worshiping God to the complete puzzlement of their non christian parents who have never given them one iota of spiritual input.

It is the greatness mental faculty that always interferes with our spirit. That's why Jesus said that children could see when adults are blind.

As I have said previously, many christians don't even know the possible inheritance of living daily with God's peace within each of us.
Depending on their church, they start their christian walk on a basis of guilt because of sin and spend their years trying to appease an angry God.
No wonder much of christianity doesn't impress outsiders.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2016, 04:24:29 PM »
In  this case reactions and choices may not apply - so what I am suggesting  is "this automatically gives them a disadvantage"

Now God works to help the disadvantaged - so where does your concept work in this ?

As in this topic you are seeing everyone with the same brush stroke
I am not seeing everyone with the same brush.

If we have been spiritually reborn from above, then the creator of the whole earth is truly our Daddy God.
As the very source of all love, God as our daddy most certainly knows our hearts beyond anywhere that anyone could possibly imagine. He alone knows what we can or can't do, and knows any disability that might constrain us.

If I as an earthly father have the desire to bring my own children into what is best for them, in proportion to what their ability is, do we not imagine that the God of creation can do a better job than us.

My brother is 18 months older than me, and was always regarded as the intellectual one, where I was the practical one.
Thankfully their expectations for the two of us were quite different. He went to university, I got an apprenticeship. I would have hated university, my brother loved it. I loved my apprenticeship.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2016, 04:31:32 PM »
I hope you get my drfit here  as we discover all the variants of communication with God and our future [depending on Him - but always reliant on us]

What I am saying is that not "all babies are born perfect"

Of course not all babies are born perfect. I still don't see that this is problematic as far as the thread title goes.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)