Author Topic: Does the future depend on us or God ?  (Read 1388 times)

Description: Is our future dependant on God or us

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Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2016, 03:16:16 PM »
So how can a child of God lose his  inheritance ? - this must mean God has decided to punish a child for bad behaviour or to make a child  an orphan...

The prodigal son shows that a child of God can lose his inheritance by walking away from it. We are not talking of eternal life here, that's another subject!
All the time the prodigal stayed with the pigs, he never saw his father's blessings. Nevertheless, he always remained a son of his father.
All the time Israel worshiped other gods, it never saw the Father's blessings.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2016, 01:06:12 AM »
It is like Matthew 6:15 where God brings judgement upon His own in real time, because of what they have done and this is assuming that Israel was not born of God.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Israel was not born of God?"

No I typed "and this is assuming that Israel was not born of God."

Israel consecrated itself before crossing over the Jordan also having crossed over the red sea - they were the "set apart ones" [set apart = born again = consecrated]



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2016, 01:07:28 AM »

The bible shows that Israel repeatedly chose to walk their own way and thus endured judgement from God entirely because of their own freewill choices.

This must mean that those chosen by God can walk in and out of "God's decision"

For  although the prodigal son walked away from His father he was always a Son  ! [ your own words in previous days]



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2016, 01:14:58 AM »
Quote
The prodigal son shows that a child of God can lose his inheritance by walking away from it. We are not talking of eternal life here, that's another subject!
  !

You are now creating a paradox by your own words

God's decision is above our's  and His final decision is "whether we enter eternal life or not already decided before we die" [in fact berfore time itself]








Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2016, 06:47:34 PM »
No I typed "and this is assuming that Israel was not born of God."

Israel consecrated itself before crossing over the Jordan also having crossed over the red sea - they were the "set apart ones" [set apart = born again = consecrated]
"Set apart" does not mean born again.
"Set apart" means "set apart" and can also apply to Baal priests.

Israel as a nation is certainly set apart unto God, but that does not mean that the nation is born again in the same context as a man might be born again.

Rom9v6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

ie. Individuals might have a guaranteed genealogy from Abraham, plus birth certificates and passports stamped by the Sanhedrin, but that doesn't mean they are included in the "set apart" status of Israel. Like the Pharisees, despite having Abraham's blood, they can still be of their father the devil.

Certainly God has a future mapped out for Israel which will come to pass. Whether individual Israelites participate in the future entirely depends on their willingness to allow God's Spirit to have entry in their lives.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2016, 06:56:25 PM »
This must mean that those chosen by God can walk in and out of "God's decision"
I don't know what you mean by "God's decision."
If you are referring to God's plan, then of course we can walk out of it. If that were not the case, then there would be no record of rebellion in the bible, nor a constant tirade from the Lord against Israel for walking in and out.
Quote
For  although the prodigal son walked away from His father he was always a Son  ! [ your own words in previous days]
Of course that's the case, and I stand by what I said.
The prodigal was always his father's son. Nevertheless he walked far from the blessing that such a position granted him. Just like Israel and like most Christians.

The desire of the Lord is that we walk in close fellowship with him. Unfortunately man's freewill constantly interferes with what God wants, and man prefers to act out his own "prodigal son" role.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2016, 08:00:28 PM »
You are now creating a paradox by your own words
Nope Q, there's no paradox. Its quite simple and basic really.
Quote
God's decision is above our's  and His final decision is "whether we enter eternal life or not already decided before we die" [in fact berfore time itself]
Nope Q. You are wrong, our decision is above God's when it comes to surrendering our life to him.
You have yet to supply one verse that shows God has not given man freewill. If God's decision was above ours, then he would have simply stopped Adam in his tracks.
Look at the following verses.-
2Peter3v9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
If the decision of who perishes was entirely God's, and he doesn't really want anyone to perish then why doesn't he fix it.

 1Tim2v3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
If God is the one who decides on our eternal life................and he would have all men to be saved...............then why doesn't he????

The decision to receive life from the Lord is entirely ours as Revelation makes clear.
Rev3v20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

We can answer that knock on our heart, or ignore it.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2016, 01:21:25 AM »
"Set apart" does not mean born again.
"Set apart" means "set apart" and can also apply to Baal priests.

Israel as a nation is certainly set apart unto God, but that does not mean that the nation is born again in the same context as a man might be born again.

Rom9v6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

ie. Individuals might have a guaranteed genealogy from Abraham, plus birth certificates and passports stamped by the Sanhedrin, but that doesn't mean they are included in the "set apart" status of Israel. Like the Pharisees, despite having Abraham's blood, they can still be of their father the devil.

Certainly God has a future mapped out for Israel which will come to pass. Whether individual Israelites participate in the future entirely depends on their willingness to allow God's Spirit to have entry in their lives.

I can agree with this

Quote
Whether individual Israelites participate in the future entirely depends on their willingness to allow God's Spirit to have entry in their lives
.

So chosen by God is a nations or persons role, to perform certain activities already assigned and prepared by God = Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


But that does not make us God's "born again"................

So we walk in and out of things He prepared for us.........however what we do - should not make any difference to our eternal state while on earth - would you agrre with this ?