Author Topic: Does the future depend on us or God ?  (Read 1762 times)

Description: Is our future dependant on God or us

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Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2016, 07:48:42 AM »
So why is God preparing a place for us, rather than "having already prepared a place ?"

Although God dwells outside of time, that doesn't mean he never operates on a planetary time scale. Additionally, Jesus was using the Jewish marriage ceremony where after betrothal, the groom would go away and prepare a place (a home) for his bride.

The cup Jesus presented for them to take at the last supper was a mirror of the wedding cup. This was presented to the bride, which if she agreed to the marriage, she would drink. From that moment she was betrothed although she would remain with her father till the groom returned.

The parable of the ten virgins also illustrates him returning for his bride.



Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2016, 08:32:40 PM »
Numbers33v55But if you will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those whom you let remain of them shall be barbs in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall trouble you in the land wherein you dwell.
56Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.


In these and other verses we see the Lord instructing Israel to utterly cleanse the land of its inhabitants, ridding it of people along with all their pagan religious artifacts.
God had already determined judgement over the Canaanite inhabitants of the land because of their wickedness and Israel was going to be the means of that judgement.

However he also issues a stern warning that if they failed in the task and mingled themselves with the people, then they would suffer the same judgement.
And that is exactly what happened and the inhabitants became a snare to them.

So to ask the question posed by the thread.
Did the future of Israel depend on God or them?
It doesn't take an intelligent man to see that their future of judgement or blessing depended entirely on whether they obeyed God or went their own way.
The bible shows that Israel repeatedly chose to walk their own way and thus endured judgement from God entirely because of their own freewill choices.


Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2016, 01:31:44 AM »
Numbers33v55But if you will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those whom you let remain of them shall be barbs in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall trouble you in the land wherein you dwell.
56Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them.

It is like Matthew 6:15 where God brings judgement upon His own in real time, because of what they have done and this is assuming that Israel was not born of God.


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2016, 01:36:48 AM »

In these and other verses we see the Lord instructing Israel to utterly cleanse the land of its inhabitants, ridding it of people along with all their pagan religious artifacts.



Is this like a type of ethnic cleansing ?

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2016, 01:42:53 AM »

So to ask the question posed by the thread.
Did the future of Israel depend on God or them?


So what does it mean when scripture states "all Israel will be saved ?"

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2016, 01:47:02 AM »

The bible shows that Israel repeatedly chose to walk their own way and thus endured judgement from God entirely because of their own freewill choices.

So how can a child of God lose his  inheritance ? - this must mean God has decided to punish a child for bad behaviour or to make a child  an orphan...


Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2016, 09:33:09 AM »


Is this like a type of ethnic cleansing ?

Hahaha, you are just too observant.
I initially wrote "ethnic cleansing" but deleted it to avoid going down another rabbit hole.
But seeing as you ask, yes it certainly is!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Does the future depend on us or God ?
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2016, 03:11:19 PM »
So what does it mean when scripture states "all Israel will be saved ?"

To the Jews, "being saved" and "salvation" never meant "heaven when you're dead" as the church teaches.
In contrast "salvation2 always meant deliverance from your enemies as illustrated throughout the OT. . That definition applied to individuals and the nation as a whole.

At the time of Paul writing, the northern kingdom of Israel was still lost in exile beyond the Euphrates river.

So in the context of Paul's words, it must mean what it says, "all Israel" means all Israel as opposed to just Judah.
The two will be reunited serving the Lord in the land.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)