Author Topic: The Law  (Read 1133 times)

Description: Is God bound by the law

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Cariad

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Re: The Law
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 06:46:21 PM »
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davetaff (reply#3)
Cariad you said
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God is sinless, He does not transgress, so why should He be subject to any law whatsoever?

How about, thou shalt not kill? In the great flood He killed the entire population on earth for example so is He outside the law.

Then St Paul tells us in Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 
What does he mean when he says the law is spiritual?

Is the Law only applicable to man in Gods image ? In the first place Israel who broke the law and was rejected - in a way Israel died.
The next man in God's image is Christ, Who kept all the laws and was perfectly sinless who died and was raised to life.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi @davetaff,

I have not seen this entry until today, I'm sorry. :)
I have not followed the thread.  Finding it hard keeping track of my posts.

I will come back to this (God willing). 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Cariad

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Re: The Law
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2016, 10:23:57 AM »
How about, thou shalt not kill? In the great flood He killed the entire population on earth for example so is he outside the law?

Then St Paul tells us in Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 
What does he mean when he says the law is spiritual?

Is the Law only applicable to man in Gods image? In the first place Israel who broke the law and was rejected - in a way Israel died.
The next man in God's image is Christ, Who kept all the laws and was perfectly sinless who died and was raised to life.

Love and Peace
Dave

'Wherefore the law is holy,
and the commandment
holy, and just, and good.'

(Rom 7:12) 

Hello @davetaff,

I thank you for your questions, for as always, they lead to a fruitful source of study.

* I don't like question #1, simply because I find the reference to God in this way offensive, 'is he outside the law'?'  For God is Holy, Just and Good!  Just as the law is described in Romans 7:12 (above).

* This verse also provides the answer to question #2, 'What does he (Paul) mean when he says the law is spiritual?' The fact that it is spiritual, is evidenced by the fact that it is indeed holy, and just, and good.  Just as the fact that mankind is carnal (of the flesh) is evidenced by what proceeds from him.  As Paul himself testifies to in (Rom 7:21)  'I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.'

* You say, dave, that Israel was rejected, but they have not been rejected.  They are at this present moment, 'Loammi,' or 'not my people', because of their unbelief, but that is only a temporary condition. (see, Hosea 1:9-11; 2:23; Isaiah 54:9).

* Regarding the flood, and the destruction of God's creation, question #1, a reading of Genesis chapters 6 & 7, along with Hebrews 11:7, 1 Peter 3:20 and 2 Peter 2:5 (in context) will show the absolute mercy and grace of God in His dealings with mankind in the days of Noah.  He acted justly, against the rise of wickedness in heart and action that was visible before His eyes (see Gen 6:5,6) .   

'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth,
and it grieved Him at His heart.'


* God gave opportunity for redemption to man, with the building of the ark, and the preaching of the one man (Noah) described as, 'perfect* in his generation' (Gen.6:9), therefore not corrupted by the action of the angels who 'left their first estate' (Jude 1:6,), and took of the daughters of men, producing offspring (Gen.6:1-4). The destruction of the flood was as much an act of mercy as of judgement against wickedness, I feel.  For what would have been the consequence of the merging of man with angelic beings long-term?  The people were, as described in Romans chapter one, 'without  excuse', and God acted justly, so requiring none.

* question #3, 'Is the Law only applicable to man in God's image?'  I find this wording difficult to get to grips with, Dave.  For the law was given because of transgression, if there was no transgression then no law would be required.  But man is sinful, and so law is a requirement, either moral or criminal, in order for justice to be upheld and maintained.  Yet, because of sin, the law failed to provide either righteousness or life, for man was incapable of living within it.  The law remained holy, just and good, because it was spiritual, being given by God, who Himself is spirit.  It is man who is incapable of living within it, for the law is not only concerned with outward action, but with the thoughts and intents of the heart, and the heart is described as 'deceitful and desperately wicked.'(Jer.17:9)

Praise God!
For the 'Ark' He has provided for us, in His mercy and grace,
in the person and work of The Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour,
and His Beloved Son. Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


PS: See also Matt.24:38,39 (Re. the days of Noah)
* 'Perfect'- re. Noah. (Gen.6:9) = without blemish as to pedigree
  all flesh corrupted except Noah's family.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Law
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2016, 05:31:12 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks another great post lots to think about and a sauce of instruction for many.

You said.
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* I don't like question #1, simply because I find the reference to God in this way offensive, 'is he outside the law'?'  For God is Holy, Just and Good!  Just as the law is described in Romans 7:12 (above).
 


Sorry you find the question offensive maybe if I had worded it differently "is he above the law" or as the law giver he would always comply with law.
For we have someone who keeps all the laws don't we Jesus Christ our Lord He lived a perfect life as an example to us all was the law only given to man in God's  image our Lord said.

Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What dose he mean by fulfilled sounds more like a prophecy they have to be fulfilled.

You said.
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* You say, dave, that Israel was rejected, but they have not been rejected.  They are at this present moment, 'Loammi,' or 'not my people', because of their unbelief, but that is only a temporary condition. (see, Hosea 1:9-11; 2:23; Isaiah 54:9).
   

I agree with this maybe rejected is the wrong word but in a way I think dead is right because Israel will be raised up to fulfil this prophecy of our Lord.

 Joh 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The last day being the last day of this creation the sixth day which I think we have jest entered.

then you said.
Quote
* God gave opportunity for redemption to man, with the building of the ark, and the preaching of the one man (Noah) described as, 'perfect* in his generation' (Gen.6:9), therefore not corrupted by the action of the angels who 'left their first estate' (Jude 1:6,), and took of the daughters of men, producing offspring (Gen.6:1-4). The destruction of the flood was as much an act of mercy as of judgement against wickedness, I feel.  For what would have been the consequence of the merging of man with angelic beings long-term?  The people were, as described in Romans chapter one, 'without  excuse', and God acted justly, so requiring none.   

I believe God was preached long before Noah as this verse testifies to.

Gen 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
And of course we also have Enoch who was a man of God who did not die but God took him up I have wondered was Enoch a type of Christ jest wondering is the story of creation from Adam to Noah the same as from Noah to the second Coming of Christ there are similarities.

I think you may be right that God destroyed those with the flood because mankind had bean polluted with the fallen angels

Love and Peace
Dave   



Cariad

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Re: The Law
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2016, 10:01:23 PM »
Hi @davetaff,

I thank God that you were able to reply so graciously.  We have different ways of expressing ourselves, and differing underestanding on some things, but praise God, He knows all things, doesn't He?  All things will come to pass as He wills.

With love in Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Law
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2016, 04:26:40 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your post I think all of us on here have different ways of expressing our self's and I believe that so long as it leads to the love of God it is acceptable to him he searches the heart so if we say what we say to the glory of God then it will be acceptable to him.

I believe the law is all about Love the only way we can keep the law is with Love and that love has to be a free will gift from the heart and for this gift of free will we the human race have had to pay a very high price and God as well with the death of his son on the cross.
Love comes at a great cost to us and to God.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: The Law
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2016, 11:54:22 AM »
Hi all
Guardian brought up this scripture in another thread and I thought it mite be interesting to investigate further it brings up the question of besides the ten commandments what dose the other laws have to tell us.

Numbers 15:32?36
A Sabbathbreaker Executed
32 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man zgathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 aThey put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said to Moses, b?The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall cstone him with stones outside the camp.? 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.

This sentence seams very severe dose it not but it dose have reminders of the crucifixion the sticks the two parts of the cross and being taken outside the camp as our Lord was taken out side the city walls of course he was not stoned to death.
But I was thinking we are likened to living stones dose this include the Israelites as well when the Jews and the gentiles stood around the cross mocking and hearing.
Maybe my over active imagination

On the other hand St Paul applied this obscure piece of the law to himself.

For the scripture saith: Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn: and, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

So are we looking at the law with the wrong eye's.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Guardian

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Re: The Law
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2016, 02:07:41 AM »
ah very good .

Is a workman in the Lord worthy of hire.

Or should we tithe and pay for a man to teach us....

I see into your thoughts.

However the question was about the bible interpreting itself
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Offline davetaff

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Re: The Law
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2016, 01:05:36 PM »
ah very good .

Is a workman in the Lord worthy of hire.

Or should we tithe and pay for a man to teach us...


I see into your thoughts.

However the question was about the bible interpreting itself

Hi Guardian
For myself I believe it dose in a way you may have guest I'm a great believer in creation and that God is always creating and he always uses the Same pattern of creation found in Genesis.
God is always using his creation process to achieve his goal which is man in Gods image which can only be Jesus Christ our Lord when he is united with his bride the church and they become one this is still a future event.
How dose this help me let the bible interpret itself when I read a passage of scripture I try to relate to the creation account in Genesis.

Love and Peace
Dave