Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1237 times)

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Offline gospelite

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 08:35:15 PM »
There are a few things that I am not sure of in God's Word.  Not that the Word isn't correct, just that my understanding may not be correct.  But, brothers and sisters, one thing I am sure of is this.  Hell is real.  The soul of man will live on for eternity somewhere.  Those who accept Jesus Christ as Savior in Heaven and those who do not in hell.  Does that make God cruel?  It does not, because He made a way of escape.  And the Bible tells us every man is dealt a measure of faith.  We will have opportunities to make a decision in our lives to serve Him or not, to accept Him as Savior or not.  If we choose to reject Him, we send ourselves to hell.  He doesn't do that. 

Jesus warned of hell many times, and if mankind chooses to step over the broken, bloody, tortured body of the Son of God and reject Him, and go on living their lives anyway they wish, hell will surely be their home.  Eternally.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2016, 02:54:57 PM »
There are a few things that I am not sure of in God's Word.  Not that the Word isn't correct, just that my understanding may not be correct.  But, brothers and sisters, one thing I am sure of is this.  Hell is real.  The soul of man will live on for eternity somewhere.  Those who accept Jesus Christ as Savior in Heaven and those who do not in hell.  Does that make God cruel?  It does not, because He made a way of escape.  And the Bible tells us every man is dealt a measure of faith.  We will have opportunities to make a decision in our lives to serve Him or not, to accept Him as Savior or not.  If we choose to reject Him, we send ourselves to hell.  He doesn't do that. 

Jesus warned of hell many times, and if mankind chooses to step over the broken, bloody, tortured body of the Son of God and reject Him, and go on living their lives anyway they wish, hell will surely be their home.  Eternally.

Hi Gospelite
Thanks for your post there are many who believe as you do and you may be right it's jest I like to look for something better like the God of Love.
A lot depends on what the word hell according to strong's it meen's.

H7585

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl    she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

There's nothing here to suggest fire and brimstone and eternal torment jest the grave were everyone goes were we sleep and wait for the resurrection and God made this plane  to Adam when he Said.

 Gen 3:19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

then we Have.

 Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

so the body rot's in the ground and our spirit returns to God that's every bodies spirit believers and unbelievers and I believe we will not have any consciousness of this until the resurrection of which there are two of course.

Then we have this.

Isa 29:24  They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Here Isaiah is speaking to Israel so as Israel have rejected Jesus when will they learn understanding and learn doctrine it must be at the second coming of our Lord and not only Israel but everyone who has not heard or rejected the gospel will have opportunity to hear and accept or reject it of there own free will.
Who is it that will teach understanding and doctrine but all those who have bean baptised with fire they will  be the lake of fire with great power and over all will be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ our Lord.
will it be a nice time for unbelievers I don't thing so for many it will be a great torment.

Love and Peace
Dave       
   

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2016, 12:00:05 PM »
Quote
davetaff:

... Then we have this.

Isa 29:24  They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Here Isaiah is speaking to Israel so as Israel have rejected Jesus when will they learn understanding and learn doctrine it must be at the second coming of our Lord and not only Israel but everyone who has not heard or rejected the gospel will have opportunity to hear and accept or reject it of there own free will.

Who is it that will teach understanding and doctrine but all those who have bean baptised with fire they will  be the lake of fire with great power and over all will be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ our Lord. Will it be a nice time for unbelievers I don't thing so for many it will be a great torment.

'Therefore thus saith the LORD,
Who redeemed Abraham,
concerning the house of Jacob,
shall not now be ashamed,
neither shall his face now wax pale.
But when he seeth his children,
the work of mine hands,
in the midst of him,
they shall sanctify My Name,
and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob,
and shall fear the God of Israel.

They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding,
and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.'

(Isa 29:22-24) 

Hello @davetaff,

This is an interesting verse. interesting chapter, one that I am going to consider.

I do not understand your concept of the lake of fire which you apply to it, though.  Would you please explain how you have arrived at this understanding.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2016, 03:27:33 PM »
Hi Cariad
Sorry for the confusion not to good at explaining myself sometimes put it down to a poor education even the spell checker don't know what i'm typing sometimes  :D

I understand you come from Wales so you may remember the fire and brimstone preacher thumping the pulpit and shouting repent or burn in hell or something similar.
I have great difficulty thinking of the the god of Love doing anything remotely like this so I look for a better answer if there isn't one i'll give up believing and go and eat drink and be merry etc.

So in my opening post on this thread I asked what dose the word hell mean or maybe I should ask what did it mean when it was first penned in scripture and as far as I can see it only means the grave the place of the dead the resting place for all the dead of humanity no fire no torment jest sleep.
But unfortunately this little word hell has taken on huge proportions you could fill liberalises with the books and films that have been made about it and its all Rubbish a figment of mans imagination but unfortunately many people believe it and turn away from God because of it.

so what is the lake of fire that scripture speaks so plainly about I can't deny it's there is it a literal fire with Jesus throwing our loved ones into it because they don't believe the thought of it I find revolting.
So what is the lake of fire I believe it will consist of all those who are caught up in the rapture when our lord comes and is united with his church they will receive the baptism of fire the King will take up his rightful place with his helper the church this is the lake of fire when Christ reigns for 1000 years

You asked
Quote
I do not understand your concept of the lake of fire which you apply to it, though.  Would you please explain how you have arrived at this understanding   

they also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding,
and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

I apply this to the lake of fire because it will be a time of education a time of learning a time when Israel will recognise there King and repent in sackcloth and ashes.
we need to ask if Christ will reign for a thousand years who will he reign over and why what is it's purpose.

What will this mean for the inhabitants of the earth I do not think it will be a very pleasant time I think it will be a time when everything mankind has built up Governments armies financial institutions etc yes there will be torment gnashing of teeth but it will all have a good purpose because GOD IS LOVE.

Love and Peace
Dave     


         

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2016, 05:34:00 PM »
Hi Cariad
Sorry for the confusion not to good at explaining myself sometimes put it down to a poor education even the spell checker don't know what i'm typing sometimes  :D

I understand you come from Wales so you may remember the fire and brimstone preacher thumping the pulpit and shouting repent or burn in hell or something similar.
I have great difficulty thinking of the the god of Love doing anything remotely like this so I look for a better answer if there isn't one i'll give up believing and go and eat drink and be merry etc.

So in my opening post on this thread I asked what dose the word hell mean or maybe I should ask what did it mean when it was first penned in scripture and as far as I can see it only means the grave the place of the dead the resting place for all the dead of humanity no fire no torment jest sleep.
But unfortunately this little word hell has taken on huge proportions you could fill liberalises with the books and films that have been made about it and its all Rubbish a figment of mans imagination but unfortunately many people believe it and turn away from God because of it.

so what is the lake of fire that scripture speaks so plainly about I can't deny it's there is it a literal fire with Jesus throwing our loved ones into it because they don't believe the thought of it I find revolting.
So what is the lake of fire I believe it will consist of all those who are caught up in the rapture when our lord comes and is united with his church they will receive the baptism of fire the King will take up his rightful place with his helper the church this is the lake of fire when Christ reigns for 1000 years

You asked
they also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding,
and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

I apply this to the lake of fire because it will be a time of education a time of learning a time when Israel will recognise there King and repent in sackcloth and ashes.
we need to ask if Christ will reign for a thousand years who will he reign over and why what is it's purpose.

What will this mean for the inhabitants of the earth I do not think it will be a very pleasant time I think it will be a time when everything mankind has built up Governments armies financial institutions etc yes there will be torment gnashing of teeth but it will all have a good purpose because GOD IS LOVE.

Love and Peace
Dave           

Hi @davetaff,

I have studied the subject of Hell very thoroughly, and am in no doubt whatsoever that the word Hell, when chosen by the early translators,to translate the Hebrew and Greek words, was the best they could have chosen, for it's meaning was 'to hide away', as is done with a body.  So the grave, or gravedom, is what it means for the most part.  When our Lord used the word 'Gehenna', also translated 'Hell', with their reference to fire and destruction,He is referring to the fires that will burn at the end of the age, and destruction of the dead is their object, not eternal conscious punishment as tradition would have us believe.

I cannot agree with what you say concerning the lake of fire:  but I do not believe it is a place of eternal conscious punishment for the unsaved.  The Devil and false propet are spoken of in terms of torment, but not the unsaved dead, which the grave and the sea gives up for judgement at the great white throne, for them it will be a final destruction.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


TJ

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2016, 02:33:06 AM »
But why would the "born again" be judged and why would the Bride be judged on her wedding day - in that on this day - she receives gifts !
#
The aftermath of this is the "meal and speeches" the "wedding banquet"

The part of the marriage which seems to be full of pomp and ceromony where the [best man] and the  father speaks and then the bridegroom [or with some the Bride .

Then the cut the cake and it's partyyy timeeeeeeeeeee.

In the Jewish equation "the woman waits for the man" and the wedding day is only known by the father.

I might suggest now "that she [in the Church metaphor]  does not know when her husband will return to take her to her Fathers house [which has many rooms]

I now suggest the Beama seat on which the Bride receives her rewards [not the judgement of the great white throne] see : 1 Corinthians 3:12-15

In this I might suggest there is a division between those who deny Christ and those who are His.

If I were to deny the Jesus Christ of my life then surely I am Judged by God [at the end] however if I am being judged [in this life] as the Bride - then what is judged [in this life] are those things that are not of Christ ?

In this we tend to hide things from God - yet God knows it all. these things we hide are denying God's working - and they are thus burnt up.

Whereas the person on the left side of Christ [on the Cross] are already judged .

How can someone who the Son never married be judged on her wedding day - when she was never a Bride  ?

Having said that "Jesus was led out of the city gates to a place called Gehenna [ a place for the wicked] this was usd by Jesus as an  illustration.

Mark 9:48 descibes Gehenna as a place where " "the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched"





 




Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2016, 02:29:02 PM »
Hi Cariad
You said
Quote
I cannot agree with what you say concerning the lake of fire:  but I do not believe it is a place of eternal conscious punishment for the unsaved.  The Devil and false propet are spoken of in terms of torment, but not the unsaved dead, which the grave and the sea gives up for judgement at the great white throne, for them it will be a final destruction.
 

You don't have to agree with me not many people do I know I have some strange ideas.
You say the unsaved dead are given up for Judgement Don't you think that's a bit unfair being that most of them have never heard of Jesus Christ and what he has done for us and it's only through faith in him we can be saved.
That's why we need the lake of fire so they can be informed and make a decision.

Hi TJ
Thanks for your post I don't think the born again will be judged they are forgiven I believe they are those who will meet the Lord in the air at the rapture it is those who form the body of Christ the Woman and remember the woman was created  to be the mans helper and they will reign with Christ for a 1000 years there task to inform all those who have not heard the gospel.
The object of all this is so they will choose to Love Christ and love God.
God dose not just want obedience  to rules and regulation he wants us to Love him and love one another from the heart and that Love will be tested when the devil will be released for a short time at the end.

Love and Peace
Dave   

TJ

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2016, 02:08:47 AM »
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You don't have to agree with me not many people do I know I have some strange ideas
.

Hi @Cariad

Its quite okay to disagree  :D

we need diversity

would do you think @ Guest