Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1241 times)

Description: What happens after death

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2017, 02:15:38 PM »
Hi
so lets move on so the grave is a place for the dead it is also a place of rest or sleep but is it a little more than this is it where we can enter into Gods rest as described in the letter to the Hebrews.

Heb 3:15  While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16  For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17  But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18  And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19  So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.   


as we see here not everyone enters into Gods rest but only those that believe.

Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
   


So the believer can enter the rest of God while we wait for the glorious day of the resurrection so let us head the words above   " To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. "

So let us strive to enter that rest and be part of the first resurrection.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Mountain Goat

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2017, 12:32:21 AM »
So in effect, without the threat of eternal punishment, I have no need to be saved from my sin? A wonderful concept if one thinks of it... Just do what we want. Live life to the full... No need to repent. All roads lead to God.... As with one removing eternal punishment one no longer needs Jesus. One just picks the easiest route!
Wait! I can see it. Remove Hellfire teaching and one can merge with all the other religions into a large single religion! Wow, satan will have Christians right where he wants them!
.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
Hi MG
Looks like you  have not read me previous posts yes there will be consequences for rejecting Christ but being burned alive is not one of them.
Don't forget there will be a second resurrection and judgement and a second death awaiting all those who reject Christ.

I will say again you can not frighten people into loving you and God wants more than anything that we should love him.

So I would much prefer to promote  Gods LOVE I believe it is far more beneficial to those seekers that read these posts.

So back to the subject in hand when we die we enter rest we sleep we go neither to heaven or hell " the Place of torment" we are at rest in waiting for the resurrection.

When that day comes it will be today this is what Christ meant when he said to the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise.

God lives in one big today on yesterday no tomorrow jest one big To-day.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2017, 09:14:10 AM »
Hi
so lets move on so the grave is a place for the dead it is also a place of rest or sleep but is it a little more than this is it where we can enter into Gods rest as described in the letter to the Hebrews.

Heb 3:15  While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16  For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17  But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18  And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19  So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.   


as we see here not everyone enters into Gods rest but only those that believe.

Heb.4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
   


So the believer can enter the rest of God while we wait for the glorious day of the resurrection so let us head the words above   " To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. "

So let us strive to enter that rest and be part of the first resurrection.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello @davetaff

With respect, much as I agree with you regarding the state of the dead, the 'rest', spoken of in, Hebrews 3:18 & 4:5, quoted by you (in red above) does not refer to this.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2017, 04:28:14 PM »
Hi
I think the thread has got the brush of  :grin:   We seam to have wondered of course from the original questions

What is the lake of fire.
What is hell.
Where do we go when we die.

I think the first two questions have bean covered pretty well quite a few different points of view but no consensus of opinion

as for the last question I think there maybe room for a little more discussion but if anyone has anything to say about the first two please feel free.

So Where do we go when we die.
Many of the churches preach that the believer goes to heaven and the unbeliever does to Hell a place of eternal torment if
this is true ( and I believe it most definitely not true ) then it means everyone would receive eternal life.

If every one is alive after death there can't be a resurrection of the dead if everyone is alive, and if everyone is alive there can not be a second death spiritual beings can not die.

these are just a few thoughts to bring the tread back on track But I do think what Cariad said on a previous post which I can't seam to find our opinions should be supported with scripture.

Psa 6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
 Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Guardian

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2017, 10:29:26 PM »


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Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2017, 05:20:03 PM »
Hi
I would prefer a banana split :)

I have done a little googling and found this site which gives the origins of doctoring of hell fire and eternal torment

http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

Thought it mite be of interest to the discussion.

Love and Peace
Dave
http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2017, 02:48:08 PM »
Hi
So where do we go when we die I believe from scripture it's to sleep in the grave as the following verses will testify.

4 verses found.

1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. View more

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. View more

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. View more

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep


Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. View more

Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. View more

Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. View more

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep

I think this is enough to prove that after death we sleep in the grave.

Love and peace
Dave