Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1232 times)

Description: What happens after death

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Online John

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2017, 01:52:42 PM »
Dave,
          How you you understand Matt 25 v 41 ?Then he will say to those on his left, ?Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

We are made in the image of God.
That is that we are rational, moral and spiritual beings. That spirit is the same in the Christian opr in the nonchristian. It is not changed by our being a sinner or by our being save. ( beyond the corupting affect of sin and the purifing effect of being saved. )

We will spend eternity with God or an eturnity without God.
Heaven is where Godis and hell is that place where God has withdrawn his presence.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2017, 04:23:44 PM »
Dave,
          How you you understand Matt 25 v 41 ?Then he will say to those on his left, ?Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

We are made in the image of God.
That is that we are rational, moral and spiritual beings. That spirit is the same in the Christian opr in the nonchristian. It is not changed by our being a sinner or by our being save. ( beyond the corupting affect of sin and the purifing effect of being saved. )


Hi John

Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
   


I would not dare question this scripture or any scripture for that matter what I am questioning and said in my opening post was  " what is the lake of fire " and the only answer I can find in scripture is.

Deu 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
 


So for me God is the lake of Fire he's also a consuming fire and when the following verses take place we will be part of that Lake of fire.

Quote
Mat 25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
   

So my contention is that the lake of fire has a good purpose to cleans and remove evil but it dose not mean God will be burning people alive.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Online John

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2017, 06:04:07 PM »
Actually Dave, what the passage says is that those who have rejected God are thrown into a lake of fire.

Whether that fire is a literal fire I don't know.
What I do know is that nothing evil, or im pure, or unkind will be in  heaven. If everything that is good is with God, then it follows that everything that is not good is in hell.

As many of the verses that refer to hell say, there, will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth', they will be in torment.
To me that torment will be an endless 'what if, why didn't I, If only I etc etc That is my surmise of what hell is like.

When you get to heaven, if it is allowed for you to review the cases of people who are in hell. You will find that every one is rightly and justly there.

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2017, 08:19:49 PM »
Cariad,
Jesus talked about hell as a place of punishment and as a place of torment.

The punishment of hell is seen in Matt 8 v 12 where Jesus comments that those without faith will be thrown outside into the darkness. As well as in Matt 5 v 22 where those who call others 'you fool' will be in danger of the fires of hell.

Hello @John,

'Outer darkness', is not a translation of any of the Hebrew or Greek words translated,'Hell', and is something quite different; it has associated with it the words, weeping and gnashing of teeth'; the margin of my Bible tells me that this is not describing a state, but refers to a definite time and occassion when this takes place..  The occassion is, 'the end of the age', when The Lord and His servants shall have come to deal with the wicked, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom. The wicked will be refused entry into the Kingdom, and will remain in the darkness beyond those magnificent walls.

* This is not the place of eternal conscious punishment.

Regarding Matthew 5:22, this was one of the references to Geenna, used by our Lord, and refers to the continual fires that burned in the valley of Hinnom, where refuse was burned.  They are fires of destruction, in which at the end time, carcasses of the dead will be disposed of. I have read that the one whose punishment was so described in, Matt.5:22, was refused burial, and was further humiliated by his dead body being disposed of in this fire that was never quenched.

* This is not a place of eternal concious punishment.

In Christ Jesus.
Cariad

Offline Mountain Goat

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2017, 10:30:05 PM »
I have to say that to ignore the concept of hell is a dangerous thing to do. People who have come back to live with a second chance after having a hell experience can certainly testify to this point.
Regarding the meanings of the old translations.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell.
Hell = sheh-ole (I can't write the Hebrew letters on this tablet!)
Hades or the world of the dead (As if a subterranean retreat), included its accessories and inmates :- grave, hell, pit.

The world of the dead implies it is a place. A physical place. Jesus said there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Read Luke 16 verses 19 to 31. This is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The word hades in this text has the same translation  (Sheh-ole) and a brief description of how the rich man was in torment.
We are made as eternal beings. Our bodies die due to the results of sin. Our spirits and souls live on, either with the Lord in Heaven or in Hell being punished if we have not accepted the free gift that Jesus has offered us.
.

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2017, 10:55:39 PM »
I have to say that to ignore the concept of hell is a dangerous thing to do. People who have come back to live with a second chance after having a hell experience can certainly testify to this point.
Regarding the meanings of the old translations.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell.
Hell = sheh-ole (I can't write the Hebrew letters on this tablet!)
Hades or the world of the dead (As if a subterranean retreat), included its accessories and inmates :- grave, hell, pit.

The world of the dead implies it is a place. A physical place. Jesus said there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Read Luke 16 verses 19 to 31. This is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The word hades in this text has the same translation  (Sheh-ole) and a brief description of how the rich man was in torment.
We are made as eternal beings. Our bodies die due to the results of sin. Our spirits and souls live on, either with the Lord in Heaven or in Hell being punished if we have not accepted the free gift that Jesus has offered us.

We are not eternal beings, @Mountain Goat, for the soul that sinneth it shall surely die, and all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, so all die.

I have not ignored the concept of Hell, MG, but on the contrary, have searched the Scriptures, and tried the traditional concept of Hell by what is actually said concerning it, within it's pages.

I have already covered your other points in previous entries, so will say no more.

With love in Christ Jesus,
Our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord, and Head.
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2017, 11:03:22 AM »
... Regarding the meanings of the old translations.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell.
Hell = sheh-ole (I can't write the Hebrew letters on this tablet!)
Hades or the world of the dead (As if a subterranean retreat), included its accessories and inmates :- grave, hell, pit.

Hello @Mountain Goat,

I feel the need to comment further on the points you have raised, starting with your reference to Psalm 9:17,

'The wicked shall be turned into hell,
and all the nations that forget God.'

(Psa 9:17)

* You obviously looked at the definition given for the word, 'Hell', in the Strong's Concordance,

H7585
שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl    she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat),
including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

* It has to be remembered that this definition is one of man's interpretation, and the only help it will be to us in coming to the truth of God concerning this subject, are the three given translations of the word 'Sheol' which are:- 'grave', 'hell', and 'pit'.  By looking up in Scripture all references to these three words we will see how the Holy Spirit uses them, and in doing so find, by their contexts, the meaning that He applies to this word, which is the only one that counts.

* I have done this some time ago.  The grave is the place of the dead.  There is no consciousness in death, it is the end of all bodily functions, sight, sound, smell, thought or movement, the 'breath of life' having returned to God who gave it.

Quote
The world of the dead implies it is a place. A physical place. Jesus said there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Read Luke 16 verses 19 to 31. This is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The word hades in this text has the same translation  (Sheh-ole) and a brief description of how the rich man was in torment.

* The words, 'the world of the dead' does indeed imply that it is a place.  However, these words are man's words, and not the words that the Holy Spirit uses, Mountain Goat. Elsewhere in Scripture you will find is so used, as to deny this concept, this is why it is  necessary to do a thorough and painstaking search, bearing in mind that the middle English word, hell, was so chosen because it best translated the Hebrew words, Sheol and Hades, the meaning then, before the intrusion of philosophy and vain deceit, was, 'to hide away' (see Smith's book on words and their origins).  Nothing more and nothing less.

*The story of the rich man and Lazarus, was the means whereby our Lord sought to expose the hypocrisy and sheer absurdity of Pharaic teaching, it is not an illustration of heaven and hell and the continuation of life after death. For were it so it would deny the truth of the testimony of the rest of Scripture on the subject.

Quote
We are made as eternal beings. Our bodies die due to the results of sin. Our spirits and souls live on, either with the Lord in Heaven or in Hell being punished if we have not accepted the free gift that Jesus has offered us.

* I have addressed what you say about mankind being 'eternal beings' in my previous post, MG. Your following statement concerning the soul of man, which incidentally comprises body soul and spirit (the whole man), as continuing to live beyond the grave, is not confirmed by Scripture.

* The wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Death or Life is the choice, not heaven or hell.

* You have testified previously of an out of body experience that you have had, but that in itself is no evidence of the continuation of life at death. The Word of God is the only source of information we have, and it does not confirm this.  Resurrection is our entry into life, and this has yet to take place.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »
Hi
Looks like things have moved on a bit thanks for all your I put very good for stimulating the little gray cells.

I would like to say I agree with what Cariad has written which I under stand to mean that the words Sheol hell grave and pit all mean the same the place where the dead sleep awaiting the resurrection.

I think the following verse from Job 14:13 will support this

13 ?Oh, that You would hide me in the grave,
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Why would Job ask God to hide him hell the grave if it is a place of torment.

Love and Peace
Dave