Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1240 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 05:50:55 PM »
Hi
Thought it was some time since we visited this page so again I ask what is the lake of fire I believe it will be all those who rule with Christ as there king during his millennial reign.

Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I believe all the above verses refer to Christs millennial reign evil will not be allowed in any form and for those who wish to practice evil this will be a great torment this is the lake of fire.

Love and peace
Dave     

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2017, 02:22:42 PM »
Hi
Just bumping this up I believe it is a important subject especially for new seeker and unbelievers who visualise the God  of love throwing sinners into a literal fire.

So what is the lake of fire I came across this in the letter to the Hebrews today and thought it might  help

Heb 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
   


Who are his ministers is it not all those who belong to him is this the lake of fire that will consume the sinners and unbelievers in the millenium.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2017, 08:42:05 AM »
Dave,
          try comparing what the bible says about heaven, what is o ris not there and do the same with hell.

You will find that all that is 'good' will be in heaven and all that is 'not good' will be in heaven.

If there is no peace, no joy, no contentment, no friendship, no love in hell.
What sort of existence will there be?

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2017, 11:46:17 AM »
Dave,
          try comparing what the bible says about heaven, what is o ris not there and do the same with hell.

You will find that all that is 'good' will be in heaven and all that is 'not good' will be in heaven.

If there is no peace, no joy, no contentment, no friendship, no love in hell.
What sort of existence will there be?

Hi John
Thank you for your reply much depends on what hell mean as I understand it it means the grave the place of the dead.

The lake of fire is different those who are thrown into it are alive so it is not hell is it.

On the one hand we preach God is love and that Christ died for a world of lost sinners.

No the other side the church of man has bean preaching if you do not relieve in Jesus you will be fried alive in a lake off fire and this by the God of love.

I find this a contradiction,if Christ died for the sins of the whole world then I believe every drop of that precious blood will be used for that purpose.

So that's why I say the lake of fire is all those who have been baptised which fire and under the leader ship of Christ and his church they will evangelize the world.

Yes there will be those who refuse to believe for them remains the second death which sounds far more humane than the lake of fire.

Having said that I don't think the lake of fire will be a present experience for the unbelievers.

Love and piece
Dave

Offline John

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2017, 07:09:06 AM »
Dave,
        Why did Jesus say that belief in him was necessary and that those who do not believe are condemned?
 Why did Jesus talk about torment,. weping and wailing, of being in anguish, of a fixed gulf between heaven and hell, of separating the sheep from the goats, of weeds being thrown into a fire, bad fisn being thrown away, of foolish virgins being excluded, shut out etc
Many of his discriptions are parables, but they teach that there is a consquence of not believing.

Just as we do not know the details of what heaven will be like, we also do not know the details of what hell will be like.
What we do know is that all who go there will regret it.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2017, 02:44:36 PM »
Dave,
        Why did Jesus say that belief in him was necessary and that those who do not believe are condemned?
 Why did Jesus talk about torment,. weping and wailing, of being in anguish, of a fixed gulf between heaven and hell, of separating the sheep from the goats, of weeds being thrown into a fire, bad fisn being thrown away, of foolish virgins being excluded, shut out etc
Many of his discriptions are parables, but they teach that there is a consquence of not believing.

Just as we do not know the details of what heaven will be like, we also do not know the details of what hell will be like.
What we do know is that all who go there will regret it.

Hi John
You are quite right in what you say the bible says all these things I cant deny it But I did say in my last post

I don't think the lake of fire will be a pleasant  experience for the unbelievers.

What I am trying to say with this thread is the lake of fire will not be a literal fire God will not be frying people alive.

What do you think will happen when Christ returns in his glory to take up his rightful place here on earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

If our Lord was to return today what would happen to all the people living in the world I think they would carry on living but the world would be an entirely different place.

Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10  Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
   

Rev 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
   

Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 


From the above we see what will happen at our lords return he shall rule with a rod of iron he shall smash to pieces all the political systems monarchies and dictators all things will be put under his feet.
And with the sword of his mouth he will smite the nations this sword is the word of God this is the millenium this when the word of God will be preached with the full power of God.

Yes what you said above is right there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth for the unbeliever the atheist it will be a terrible time when they see everything they hold dear torn down and destroyed.

Then this saying from Isaiah will come true.

Isa 11:8  And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
   


Love and Peace
Dave
 

Cariad

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2017, 07:32:16 PM »
Why did Jesus say that belief in him was necessary and that those who do not believe are condemned?
Hello John,

* John 3:16-18  makes it clear that unbelief receives condemnation, but what form does that condemnation take?  Is it not judgment and death? (the second death - which is destruction)

Quote
Why did Jesus talk about torment,. weeping and wailing, of being in anguish, of a fixed gulf between heaven and hell, of separating the sheep from the goats, of weeds being thrown into a fire, bad fish being thrown away, of foolish virgins being excluded, shut out etc
Many of his descriptions are parables, but they teach that there is a consequence of not believing.
- Torment:  Rev. 9:5; 14:10; 20:10
- Weeping and wailing: Matt.8:12; Matt.13:42,50; Matt.22:13; Matt.24:51; Matt.25:30; Luk.13:28.
- Anguish:  Rom.2:9;
- Fixed gulf: Luke 16:26
- Separating the sheep from the goats: Matt.25:32,33
- Weeds (chaff?): Matt.3:12; Luk.3:17
- Fish (None)
- Foolish virgins: Matt.25:1-13

* Yes there is a consequence of not believing, but  the examples you give above, have little to do with it, John. The weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is a study in itself, and has nothing to do with hell or the lake of fire, or the punishment of the unbeliever.  Torment also is not spoken of in relation to the unbelieving, but of Babylon, the Beast and those who worship him, the false prophet and Satan himself.

Quote
Just as we do not know the details of what heaven will be like, we also do not know the details of what hell will be like.
What we do know is that all who go there will regret it.

* Hell, as a place of eternal conscious punishment does not exist, it is the place of the dead, or the grave, for the most part, and only used of fire and punishment when used as a translation of Gehenna, and then concerns destruction. (Matt.5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luk.12:5).

* Your reference to the 'fixed gulf' of Luke 16:26, relates to the pharisaic teaching that the Lord was exposing as hypocrisy and sheer absurdity in the parable of, 'The Rich Man and Lazarus'. Josephus the Jewish historian, a Pharisee himself, mentions such detail as Abraham's bosom etc., in his writings.

* The traditional doctrine concerning Hell has no basis in Scripture.  The word, Hell, originally meant 'to hide away', and nothing more, it has been abused and misused by tradition and has become a lie, which denies the truth concerning death.  There is no life without resurrection, and no consciousness in death.  Like the joke concerning the skeleton who wanted to go to a party, but it had no body to go with, so the body can go nowhere at death for 'the breath of life' (or 'spirit') has gone back to God who gave it, to be reunited with the believer's resurrection body on that day of God's choosing.  There is no faculty for speech, or thought, in a dead body, and 'the breath of life', is just that, 'breath', not some disembodied entity.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline Mountain Goat

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2017, 05:24:06 PM »
What I found dangerous more then anything is there are preachers going round preaching there is no hell. Now why would we need to be saved? It is dangerous preaching as quite a few believe this and are at risk chiefly because they can then use it as an excuse to sin.
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