Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1239 times)

Description: What happens after death

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2016, 11:38:58 AM »
Hi
Came across these verses while looking for something else thought they may be relevant

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It seams the fire here is not necessarily a bad thing all  work will be tried by fire and we can be saved by that fire when
As one refines precious metal to remove the dross in the same way Gods fire will refine us.

 Pro 25:4  Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.
 Isa 1:25  And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi @davetaff,

There is no justification for using these verses in reference to the lake of fire. 

Satan and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire
Death and the grave (Hell) will also be cast into the lake of fire.
How can you equate this with the verses you have quoted above?

It is not appropriate to try to sugar coat what is unpleasant in God's Word, for all you are doing is denying it's truth, and rendering it powerless.  With respect, is this not handling the Word of God deceitfully? (2 Cor. 4:2)

'And the beast was taken,
and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,
with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast,
and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.'

(Rev 19:20)
 
'And the devil that deceived them
was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'

(Rev 20:10)
 
'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.'
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire
.'

(Rev 20:14,15)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2016, 02:52:41 PM »
Hi Cariad you said

Quote

There is no justification for using these verses in reference to the lake of fire. 

Satan and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire
Death and the grave (Hell) will also be cast into the lake of fire.
How can you equate this with the verses you have quoted above?

It is not appropriate to try to sugar coat what is unpleasant in God's Word, for all you are doing is denying it's truth, and rendering it powerless.  With respect, is this not handling the Word of God deceitfully? (2 Cor. 4:2)

'And the beast was taken,
and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him,
with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast,
and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.'
(Rev 19:20)
 
'And the devil that deceived them
was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'
(Rev 20:10)
 
'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.'
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.'
(Rev 20:14,15)
 

Can't argue with what the scripture says but I can interpret it to come to a better understanding of the God of Love whom I worship and I say again the thought of the God of Love throwing my Loved ones alive into a fire is not an option unless it has a good purpose which I believe it has.

I looked up the meaning of brimstone and apparently it means sulphur which seams to be an essential element in all life forms interesting don't you think.

Then our Lord told us we should Love our enemies but He and God dose not love their enemies because all  he wants to do is fry them alive not a very good example of loving your enemies wouldn't you say.

 
Deu 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

What do you think this means

Love and Peace
Dave

   

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2016, 09:28:50 PM »
Hi Cariad you said

Can't argue with what the scripture says but I can interpret it to come to a better understanding of the God of Love whom I worship and I say again the thought of the God of Love throwing my Loved ones alive into a fire is not an option unless it has a good purpose which I believe it has.

I looked up the meaning of brimstone and apparently it means sulphur which seams to be an essential element in all life forms interesting don't you think.

Then our Lord told us we should Love our enemies but He and God dose not love their enemies because all  he wants to do is fry them alive not a very good example of loving your enemies wouldn't you say.

Deu 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

What do you think this means

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello @davetaff.

Thank you for your response.

I understand. :) and empathize.

'For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire,
even a jealous God.'

(Deu 4:24)

I do love the Word of God, @davetaff: and am praising God for your question, for it is an indication that the Holy Spirit is using it to stop you in your tracks and cause you to question. That is what a figure of speech, as used in Scripture is intended to do, isn't it? It halts us, and causes us to give consideration to something of importance. Praise God!

* This is a figure of speech called 'anthropopatheia', where God is likened to human attributes and inanimate things in order for us to understand something concerning Him.  It is the Holy Spirit's way of bringing what is infinite into the reach of our finite minds.  Praise His Name!  Here God is likened to a consuming fire, and the context in which it comes gives us the reason why. 

* You asked what I believe, regarding these words, so I Looked at Deut. 4:24: and my Bible marginal notes, in reference to these words, directed me to Exodus 24:16,17, which brings before the minds eye the scenes at Mount Sinai, where in the eyes of the people the glory of God in the cloud upon the top of the mount looked like a consuming fire.  So these words have an historical point of reference.

Another reference given is to Hebrews 12:29, where these words from Deuteronomy are quoted, and looking at the marginal notes there, further references are given regarding these words, which it would be good to consider. [Psa. 50:1-6, especially v.3; Psa. 97:3 (although the whole psalm is worth reading);and 2 Thess. 1:7-10, especially v.8 ]

All of these references are set in a context of judgment. In Exodus, the danger was very real, for the people were warned that if they even touched the mount they would be put to death (19:13). The danger revealed in the other references to end time judgement is equally real, and the fire associated with God's presence real also. 

* You speak of God being a God of love, Dave, and so He is: but in the gospel (Rom.1:16-18), not only is God's salvation revealed, but God's wrath also, and both are the revelation of God's righteousness, aren't they?

* As to what you say concerning your loved ones, I too have loved one's who do not know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and I am aware that they will all have to stand before Him one day.  However, I know that He Who knows the secrets of men's hearts will judge justly.  Torment in the lake of fire is researved for the Devil, the Beast and the false prophet, torment is not spoken of in regard to mankind, only final destruction in the second death. 

* Man does not have an immortal soul, does He? Life eternal is the gift of God, given to those who have come into Christ, and are hid in Him, isn't it? 

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you, again,
For this has been a blessing to me.
With love in Christ Jesus
Cariad


PS: I would value feedback if you have any.  :)

 




Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2016, 04:21:51 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for another great post full of uplifting information I'm sure all who read it will be enriched.
Interestingly we have come from Revelations back to Exodus I sometimes think the word of God is not set in time but is all in the same time if that makes any sense.
What is interesting about mount Sinai is that Moses could go up the mountain into Gods consuming fire and not be harmed except for his face shining so he had to ware a vial  which makes me think the lake of fire is no threat to believers only unbelievers but I still think it has a good purpose.

You said
Quote
Here God is likened to a consuming fire,

The scriptures say God is a consuming fire To consume usually means to take into oneself I have wondered if this is what Paul means when he says God will be all in all in other words we will be in God and God will be in us.

as for Psalm 50 you quoted.

 Psa 50:1  A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Psa 50:2  Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
Psa 50:3  Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psa 50:4  He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

I get the impression this is about our lords first coming to Israel as the as the rest of the psalm seams to indicate  but there dose not seam to be any mention of fire in the gospels.
"and it shall be very tempestuous round about him."

This made me think of this.

Heb 12:26  Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven

Dose this shaking the earth mean at his first coming his words have  reverberated around the world shaking it to its foundations and this will happen again in the future at his second coming and he will shake the heavens as well.
and there was another shaking at the giving of the law on mount Sinai I like things to be in three's.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
 

 

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2016, 08:11:42 AM »
Quote
'Does this shaking the earth mean at his first coming his words have  reverberated around the world shaking it to its foundations and this will happen again in the future at his second coming and he will shake the heavens as well.
and there was another shaking at the giving of the law on mount Sinai I like things to be in three's.'

Hello @davetaff,

Just a little aside here, in regard to your words, 'I like things to be in threes'

There is a book that I have which you would enjoy referencing, regarding number in Scripture. I am going to give you a link which will enable you to download it free of charge in PDF format.  Then you could look at the chapter related to the number three. 

I have it before me now, and have been reading the chapter regarding the number three, thinking to quote something from it for you.  Please consider taking a look, for there is so much to interest you there, and give explanation for your instinctive delight in this number.

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2016, 02:20:04 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

Just a little aside here, in regard to your words, 'I like things to be in threes'

There is a book that I have which you would enjoy referencing, regarding number in Scripture. I am going to give you a link which will enable you to download it free of charge in PDF format.  Then you could look at the chapter related to the number three. 

I have it before me now, and have been reading the chapter regarding the number three, thinking to quote something from it for you.  Please consider taking a look, for there is so much to interest you there, and give explanation for your instinctive delight in this number.

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Cariad
Thank you for the link to the book I have managed to put in onto my kindle so look forward to a good read this evening looks like it may be very interesting thanks again

Love and Peace
Dave
http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

Online davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2016, 11:45:26 AM »
Hi
Something I came across this morning made me think of this thread.

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 1:7 KJV
http://bible.com/1/heb.1.7.KJV

His angels and ministers a flame of fire angels are only messengers as are ministers is dose that mean we who spread the word are or will be the lake of fire which will cleans and purge the world of evil at our Lords return.

Love and peace
Dave
http://bible.com/1/heb.1.7.KJV

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2016, 12:39:20 PM »
'And of the angels He saith,
"Who maketh His angels spirits,
and His ministers a flame of fire."

(Heb. 1:7)

Hello Dave, (@davetaff),

* The writer of Hebrews says this, within the context of contrasting the person of the Son of God with Angels, thereby showing the superiority of the Son in every way to angels.

Praise His Name!

* That it is angels to which he is referring here is confirmed in Heb. 1:13,14:-

'But to which of the angels said He at any time,
"Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?"
Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?'

(Heb 1:13,14)

* The lake of fire and it's purpose is something which you refer to a lot, Dave, so it is obviously something which you have issues with.  I would like to help.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad