Author Topic: Hell and the lake of fire  (Read 1242 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Hell and the lake of fire
« on: July 16, 2016, 12:03:16 PM »
Hi
I thought I'd start with a few questions.

What is the lake of fire.
What is hell.
Where do we go when we die.

Love and Peace
dave



Offline Seeker

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 01:28:26 PM »
'Turn to God, or burn in hell' is what I got told when I was younger. It didn't exactly have me running into the arms of God - in fact it had the opposite affect - I ran in the opposite direction.

So what has changed? I know God is a God of love, but I will admit to still wondering about the 'burning in hell' bit.

I had some Christians tell me when I was younger that my granddad would be burning in hell, didn't exactly endear me to them or Christianity. Where is my granddad though? He's dead. Can any judge where he is? He wasn't a Christian, so some Christians would say he is burning in hell. However what if he had one of those death bed conversion things? He could've turned to God before he died.

It's still a difficult one to get my head around. God created us, we are His children, but some of us reject Him - so He decides that those who reject Him are going to burn in hell? Or is it the one's God rejects? and does God reject? cause He certainly seems to in some parts of Bible. So to try and understand this if I imagine my child rebelled against me, not too hard to imagine, children are prone to rebellion. So what do I do, show them unconditional love? or decide enough is enough, I'll punish them by letting them burn forever?

Where is the dividing line? what I mean is - clearly God is loving, gracious and merciful, forgiving, etc, however he's also a just God and has wrath. So where is the line that we cross? Is it those who reject Him? but then he sometimes forgives those who reject him. So is it a certain amount of times regarding rejection? hhmmmm Israel seemed to reject him a fair few times, go their own ways, yet God kept having mercy on them and having them back - yes they did get some punishment - but not eternal burning?

Some might say it is the condition of our hearts that matter, but Bible mentions hearts being deceitful.

Jeremiah 17:9 'The heart is deceitful above all things
    and beyond cure.
    Who can understand it?'

and;

Romans 3:10 ' As it is written:?There is no one righteous, not even one;'

Anyways, that's my musings, more questions than answers - do we know for definite the answers though?

Offline Seeker

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 01:32:12 PM »
Actually are we all God's children?, cause I just remembered this bit in the bible. John 8:44 'You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father?s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.'

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 03:18:58 PM »
Hi Seeker
Thanks for your post I to have problems with the concept of hell fire of people I love being burned in hell for eternity that why I think it's a load of cods wallop.
So what is the fire lets have a look at what scripture has to say.

   Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exo 3:3  And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exo 3:4  And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Would this fire of God do us any physical harm it did not burn the bush so why would it burn us then we have this

Heb 12:28  Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire.

To consume could mean to take into as in we will be in God

 1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

there is also that God went before Israel as a consuming fire to remove there enemies.

Then we have
Mat 3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

what is the baptism of fire I believe all those who are baptised with fire will become the lake of fire.

Then we have

Mar 9:48  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The fire is not quenched because the fire is God.

Love and Peace
Dave


 


 
 

Offline John

Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 03:46:58 PM »
Dave,
        So if those who are not Christian arn't in hell and they arn't in heaven where are they?

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 05:22:25 PM »
Hi John
Everyone who dies goes to the same place the grave Sheol the place of the dead and there and there they sleep and wait for the resurrection of the dead this is made clear in scripture.

  1Co 15:6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
2Pe 3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12  Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13  Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14  Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

so when we die we sleep in the grave we go neither to heaven or hell that comes later after the resurrection of witch there are two lets prey we are in the first.

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 03:50:19 PM »
Hi
Then we have Christs millennial reign what is the purpose of that what dose these verses mean.

  Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel

I take the heathen here to mean everyone who is not saved will be broken with the rod of iron not a pleasant experience.
Then we have

Rev 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Here we have the church receiving power over the nations next is

 Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 
This of course is reference to the birth of our lord and being taken up to heaven. and finally

  Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The sword of course is the word of God the rod of iron his sceptre.
 to sum up Christ will reign for 1000 years as King of kings with his Church who have been given power over the nations there purpose is to to return the earth to it's perfection it had at the beginning armies will be disbanded fighting will cease starvation a thing of the past etc.

Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Love and Peace
Dave
   

 

 
 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Hell and the lake of fire
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 03:41:50 PM »
Hi
Came across this verse today and thought it relevant to the thread.

Heb 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

I take it his ministers are all those who have chosen to serve our Lord will become a flame of fire the baptism of fire they will be come the lake of fire.

Love and Peace
Dave