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Offline Maggy

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Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #200 on: July 29, 2017, 03:42:51 PM »

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What can society expect if it no longer bases it's morality on Christianity.
In an atheistic evolutionary world view only the fit and able are worth anything. Why expend resources on those who DoNot contribute to the wealth of society.
I am a Christian, but I know a lot of atheists. Those who believe in evolution do not condemn the unfit as not worthy of life. The vast majority of those who support charities are not church going people. The view that you see as atheist is more akin to a Nazi view of life. I believe that God loves all people who are loving and wants us to do likewise, irrespective of what they profess to believe.
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Offline John

Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #201 on: July 29, 2017, 10:52:11 PM »
Sorry Maggy,
                   believe in evolution means accepting that the strong will prosper at the expense of the weak. Predators pick off the old, ill or young not the fit and able.  While the average atheist does not support sending the old or unfit to the gas chambers, they donot have any logical reasons based on their world view not to do so.

As for charities, the stats show that the religious give  far more than the so called liberal atheist.

The love of God can be seen in God's daily provision of life and of everything needed to support life, as well as in God's giving of the ten commandments. etc.  God loves man kind, but that love does not extend to his turning a blind eye to peoples deliberate breaking of his laws or rejecting the plain facts that there is a God and not searching for him.                                                 

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #202 on: July 30, 2017, 12:50:25 AM »
I agree with @John.
Evolutionary theory is about survival of the fittest.  Consequently there is an implication as well as an application within it, to defend those who write off, or take advantage of the weak and disadvantaged  of society.
While different people show a wide range of behaviour, they are complying to survival of the fittest, when they neglect the needy and when they have behaviour, that is out to get what they want and in doing so running over people.
Rather than complying to God's way, which is genuinely caring for others in all approaches.
I cannot put people into categories by saying atheists do this and Christians don't, or vice versa.
Its more complex than that.
Its more to do with what source their  behaviour supports.
As some atheists for example may show their behavior fits this and some don't. In as far as caring for others is concerned.
Likewise with Christians, but when they don't they are either not what they claim to be, or not walking in His love.
Only a true Christian has the life of Christ in them, where they have love for God and other people, where they will consequently care for others and approach things in a kind and gentle way. When its a result of the life of Christ in them it will be stronger, deeper and more genuine and the more they walk with Him.
Yet started off as selfish, as that is part of human nature.
Everyone has their own  faults and transgressions and it takes humility to admit it and God will forgive, justify and transform people, in a heart response in turning to Him. Enabling them to care for others in a genuine way, which displays that God supports the vulnerable and needy, through His life in them. Which is a very different way to evolutionary theory.


Offline John

Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #204 on: July 30, 2017, 01:55:23 PM »
Unfortunetly death is a soultion for cash strapped health systems, as it's cheaper to kill rather than tend to them for twenty years or more.
see https://www.theway.co.uk/news/euthanasia-for-healthy-people-could-be-legal-in-the-netherlands-soon

"Look to Oregon ? the first state in the U.S. to legalize physician-assisted suicide ? suicide rates continue to climb while funding for prevention continues to dry up; among teenagers, suicide is the second leading cause of death now," Hocker said."
Julie Hocker who is a senior policy fellow for the Center for Human Dignity at the American Conservative Union Foundation.

It is the same with calls to lgalise 'pot' see https://winteryknight.com/2014/10/09/new-20-year-study-long-term-use-of-cannabis-raises-risk-of-mental-health-problems/
excerts:-
?One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent on it
 ?Cannabis doubles the risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
 ?Cannabis users do worse at school. Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
 ?One in ten adults who regularly smoke the drug become dependent on it and those who use it are more likely to go on to use harder drugs
 ?Driving after smoking cannabis doubles the risk of a car crash, a risk which increases substantially if the driver has also had a drink
 ?Smoking it while pregnant reduces the baby?s birth weight

https://www.theway.co.uk/news/euthanasia-for-healthy-people-could-be-legal-in-the-netherlands-soon
https://winteryknight.com/2014/10/09/new-20-year-study-long-term-use-of-cannabis-raises-risk-of-mental-health-problems/


Offline Maggy

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Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #206 on: July 31, 2017, 12:22:45 PM »
Sorry Maggy,
                   believe in evolution means accepting that the strong will prosper at the expense of the weak. Predators pick off the old, ill or young not the fit and able.  While the average atheist does not support sending the old or unfit to the gas chambers, they donot have any logical reasons based on their world view not to do so.

As for charities, the stats show that the religious give  far more than the so called liberal atheist.

The love of God can be seen in God's daily provision of life and of everything needed to support life, as well as in God's giving of the ten commandments. etc.  God loves man kind, but that love does not extend to his turning a blind eye to peoples deliberate breaking of his laws or rejecting the plain facts that there is a God and not searching for him.                                                 
John, Do you actually know any atheists or agnostics? Some of the nicest people I have met were/are non believers.
 I have stood for many a long hour collecting for charities where people have no idea who will benefit from the money they give. On average, 1 in 5 donate and I do not think that 20% of the population are believers. Non believers adopt and foster children, do voluntary work with the elderly and generally care about those around them. Altruism has it's own reward.

I agree that most people are selfish to a greater or lesser extent and that is what causes the troubles we have in this world. The average ant or bee is less selfish than many human beings, but that does not disprove evolution.  Survival of the fittest applies to creatures of lower intelligence in the animal kingdom.

I think that the inquiring human minds of years gone by wanted to understand where the world came from and attributed it to God being the creator, but now we have learned more about the natural world, most people have moved on. I think science and evolution are correct and that the human race have been taught by God to rise above their selfishness. Being loving and good has it's own rewards. Do you not feel good when you have done something altruistic? Good parents teach their children to be good citizens, by showing approval to this behaviour. Unfortunately, not all humans are fortunate enough to have good parents, nor do many of them learn from school or church.

Even the notion of forgiveness has good psychological benefits. If you become bitter and vengeful when hurt by someone, you will be less happy than if you forgive them and put it behind you. People have one very sound reason for not euthenasing the old and sick, and that is because we all get old and sick eventually.

It is hard to overcome our inate selfishness, and that is where Christians can look to our Father in heaven for His encouragement and approval of our good behaviour and a loving boot in the conscience when we slip into our old selfish ways.
Maggy

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Raise a debate
« Reply #207 on: July 31, 2017, 01:00:03 PM »
Hiya Maggie xx    :D

Its not everyone who supports evolution , but some who do mention the selfish gene to justify many behaviours. For instance, Hitlar and the Nazis did in wanting an elite race and in doing so were out to exterminate the Jewish people, Gypsies and other races.
Like you I've met some very nice atheists , agnostics and those who don't believe for want of a right word. Yet there are some radicals who currently claim that Christians have not progressed in evolution and claim they are hampering the progression of humanity.
Yet in genuine christianity, it is grace by the fruits of God's Holy Spirit that is more powerful and genuine than human ideals but its all being turned upside down these days, with good being called evil, and evil being called good. I'm not talking about pretending Christians but true Christian s who are and will be persecuted.
You can imagine whats going on in the underworld, implemented by dark powers  there is a scheme to persecute them, as well as Jewish people, muslins and those who worship one God.
Its coming out and increasing, but the way the devil works these days is to completely misrepresent God and those who worship Him.
While there are many who don't walk in the love of God, or not what they claim to be, there are some very genuine Christian s and those who worship one God, who the devil wants to persecute, not just through misunderstandings and misrepresentations but worse still. There are some evolutions that occur but not in how Darwin said , and where it is used to justify certain behaviour, regarding the selfish gene.

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