Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5933 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline francis drake

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2016, 07:15:00 PM »
Hi
The other question is what was the tree of life and what was the tree of knowledge maybe it should be who not what if the tree of life was Christ It seams to me the tree of knowledge would be satan had he already fallen being a spiritual being   he would have knowledge of good and evil which he used to tempt eve.

Use of the word "Tree" refers to where you pick the fruit, thus there are two trees and two fruits.

From one you pick life and the other you pick death.

As Dave rightly said, the Tree of Life is Christ Jesus, who of course is the source of all life.

As scripture says, the other tree, represents Knowledge of Good or Evil, or more simply put, right and wrong. Of itself knowledge has absolutely no life,
ie. The Tree of Knowledge brings death!

One of the biggest mistakes seen in the body of Christ, and seen on this forum, is to fall for the lie that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is about correctly seeking the "good" part of that tree.
Christians need to wake up, or as Paul often says, "Brethren, I would not have you ignorant........"
Which ever fruit we eat of that tree, whether "Good" or "Evil", we are eating death!

Adam knew there were two trees. He could have chosen to eat of the Tree of Life, but despite the warning of death, instead they chose to eat of knowledge.

That's what Satan offered them.
Gen3v4?You will not certainly die,? the serpent said to the woman. 5?For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.?

Adam was the ruling monarch over the planet. Adam was fully flesh and fully spirit man. He knew God was his creator, and had experienced God creating a wife for him. Thus he knew perfectly well that God was his source of wisdom, truth, power and life.
Now we find Satan telling Adam that he was perfectly capable of ruling the planet based on his own knowledge or intellect. As Satan's words make clear, "you will be like God".
 ie. Adam personally will become the source of truth, rather than God.
Adam will become the arbiter of what is good or evil, rather than God.

To do that, Adam's relationship with God has to be kicked into the long grass. When God told Adam that he would die if he ate of the Tree of Knowledge, that wasn't a threat of God taking revenge or punishing Adam. God was making Adam aware that the consequence of departing from God would in itself render death. That was simply because Adam would have to repudiate life. ie suicide.

Every day we are faced with the same choice. Do we eat of the Tree of Knowledge, or do we eat of the Tree of Life.
That's the difference between living by law or living by grace.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2016, 01:42:22 AM »
The word used for tree in Genesis is the same word used for a literal tree.

I don't think there was anything magical in the tree and neither anything magical in the tree of life.

These were simply trees [symbolic/using metaphorical language]

They were not standing out in the garden like "spiritual super tree's"

The downfall of Adam and Eve was to disobey God and with this sin came into the world


[If God had said "do not take from the tree of life" and Eve took - the same generational curse would have come upon mankind]

.

Now to take these trees [metaphors] and to carry them into the here and now - is ok - "if it used again as a metaphor" [although it depends how the word / metaphor / is used and for what purpose/agenda]

The covenant here was a conditional covenant [at this time - the edenic  covenant]

Now we are covered by the "new covenant" which saves us from the "adamic covenant" = death and curses - even so it does not save the cursed ground nor marital strife - thorns and thistles/weeds -  nor death - all introduced by adams sin [not the tree of knowledge]



Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2016, 10:21:38 AM »
What the trees where other than trees is irrelevent. Adam failed Gods test and we have to live with the fall out.
Rather than look back to what no longer exsists, look forward to what is going to exsist in the new heaven and the new earth. There according to Revelation, is going to be a line of trees along a river whos's leaves and fruit are going to be for the healing of the nations.

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2016, 11:20:12 AM »
Amen, and rather than the woman taking the fruit and the man disobeying God's  "ONE" command [past tense/ edenic covenanrt]

We will all eat take from those tree's" [future tense / new covenant] ended

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2016, 02:17:26 PM »
Hi
Some interesting points made things to think on here are a few more. Our Lord said

Joh 15:1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Is not a vine a form of tree was not Israel likened to a fig tree the parable of the fig tree was about Israel was Israel a tree of Knowledge of good and evil God took them out of Egypt and planted them in a land flowing with milk and honey (Eden) He gave them the law so they would know what Good and evil was.
Then our Lord came into the world the tree of Life then he was removed to heaven direct access was denied us as it was Adam Israel was dispersed among the nations removed from the land of milk and honey as Adam was driven out of Eden.
Creation is an ongoing prosses.

Love and Peace
Dave 

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2016, 12:14:27 AM »
Hi
Some interesting points made things to think on here are a few more. Our Lord said

Joh 15:1  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Is not a vine a form of tree was not Israel likened to a fig tree the parable of the fig tree was about Israel was Israel a tree of Knowledge of good and evil God took them out of Egypt and planted them in a land flowing with milk and honey (Eden) He gave them the law so they would know what Good and evil was.
Then our Lord came into the world the tree of Life then he was removed to heaven direct access was denied us as it was Adam Israel was dispersed among the nations removed from the land of milk and honey as Adam was driven out of Eden.
Creation is an ongoing prosses.

Love and Peace
Dave 






 The fig tree can be compared to Israel as God used it Himself in Jeremiah 24:1-10: !

Here we see the good and bad fruit in Jeremiah 24:2 One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.

The good fruit were the ones sent to exile in babylon and God watched over them for their "good"


So the exiles returned to God in His time - But the bad fruit was destroyed.



Comparing /metaphors/visions/ is a difficult one because they do not always collate or correlate together  - as you see when comparing Jeremiah 24 with the fig tree in Matthew 21:19 where Jesus cursed the entire tree .

However we are looking through time here and later we see in  Matthew 24:32  "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

Again God talks to His Beloved in  Song of Solomon 2:11 ?For behold, the winter is past,  The rain is over and gone. 12?The flowers have already appeared in the land;The time has arrived for pruning the vines, And the voice of the turtledove has been heard in our land. 13?The fig tree has ripened its figs, And the vines in blossom have given forth their fragrance. Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, And come along!?


So we see a fig tree that is not ripe and cursed and a tree that has ripened. = We also see good fruit and bad fruit.

With this I have to look at the context of each scripture / who it was given too / when /for what reason /




Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2016, 02:17:52 PM »
Hi TJ
Thanks for your post Some interesting scriptures I thought of one more maybe the most important of all.

 Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The tree they hung our Lord on the cross surely the tree of life giving life to the world saving all those who wish to partake of it's fruit.

Like I have said before we need to look at the creation account starting with Noah a new creation day 4 the sun and the moon are created Christ comes into the world the sun the moon is created the church this happened 4000 years after Noah day 4.

Love and Peace
Dave   

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2016, 12:23:17 AM »
Well on day 1, God said "let there be Light" 2 Corinthians 4:6;

Here the Word [Jesus] spoke life into existence.  John 1:1

In the new creation a person has Light illuminate their inner being to bring them out of darkness. [on day 1 - rebirth]  2 Corinthians 4:6;

In fact before day 1, Ephesians 1:4

God divided the light from the darkness 2 Corinthians 6:14


Jesus was always , yesterday ,today and forever , Hebrews 13:8;

God spoke [Jesus "The Word" and there was Light