Genesis and the OT

[davetaff]

Davestaff,
               The water of the flood is still here in the seas and rain that falls.
As to spiritual water, don'tget tied up in knots over symbolism. Jesus was talking to a women at a well so he used something she could understand to bring her into a spiritual relationship with himself.

Hi John
Of course you are right the two stories are unrelated as for symbolism it's everywhere in scripture but not always easy to spot to take the story of Noah and the flood at face value as I have for years is fine.
It was jest when I wrote what I did that thought came into my head what if it was the spiritual waters and if so what could it mean I have lots of strange thoughts.

Love and Peace
Dave
   

[davetaff]

Hi
Now we come to the strange story of Noah and his three sons at least I find it strange here we have Noah the ons God has chosen for his righteousness and one of the first things he dose is get drunk.

 Gen 9:20  And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
Gen 9:21  And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
Gen 9:22  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
Gen 9:23  And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
Gen 9:24  And Noah awoke from his wine , and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

I see this as a prophesy Noah represents mankind his three sons the Jew the Christian and the Muslim Ham's line became a curse and a servant to his brothers.
Ham and Japheth would not look on or accept the truth and it's the same to day they will not accept that Christ Jesus is the son of God.

Love and Peace
Dave     

[Seeker]

I have mentioned this before and is not something I can easily shake out of my head. I might be mistaken.

Ham, kind of 'grassed' up on his dad - in other words he did not tell the truth in love - he was not telling on his father out of love, but more to shame him. Whereas the other two sons were respectful of their fathers condition (albeit self inflicted, but who of us has not made mistakes?).

Anyways, as I said before and I still wonder - Truth - yes, but wielded as a blunt weapon - No! Truth told in Love yes - Love makes the difference and Love is not always the soppy ideal some think - Love can be very powerful.

[John]

Everyone blames Noah. Yet think about what he did.
He stood out from the crowd by building the ark. For that he would have been riddiclued. He proclaimed the coming judgement and again would have been reviled for pointing out the consquences of sin.
He had to organise the building, anyone whos been involved in any project will understand how stressfull this is.
He had to organise the fodder and the storage of it.
Then there was the flood and careing for the animals, with all the stress of 'what is going to happen'.
Finaly they can leave to go into a totally changed world. One in whichgiantic volcaneos are errupting, that enormous storms sweep cross the land, an ice age is starting and he has to start farming.
I think it understandable that he gets drunk. The bible doesn't condem him, only the action of his youngest son.

[TJ]

Is this God taking sides

Or God seeing between   relationships ? [and making a present Judgement]

Even so "some would say all are saved through the head of the family"

[davetaff]

I have mentioned this before and is not something I can easily shake out of my head. I might be mistaken.

Ham, kind of 'grassed' up on his dad - in other words he did not tell the truth in love - he was not telling on his father out of love, but more to shame him. Whereas the other two sons were respectful of their fathers condition (albeit self inflicted, but who of us has not made mistakes?).

Anyways, as I said before and I still wonder - Truth - yes, but wielded as a blunt weapon - No! Truth told in Love yes - Love makes the difference and Love is not always the soppy ideal some think - Love can be very powerful.

Hi Seeker
I think maybe your misunderstanding what I'm trying to say I'm not interpreting this part of scripture from a human point of view but from a spiritual point of view.
It's not about Ham snitching on his dad Its about God telling us what is going to happen in the future that mankind would  produce three men the middle one would become a curse ( and hung on a tree) and become a servant to his brothers sounds familiar.
God always lets us know what he is going to do one way or another.
otherwise I can't think why God would tell us about Ham snitching on his dad I do believe that everything God tells us has a higher meaning can't always see it but its there.

Love and Peace
Dave   

[Seeker]

Things can be seen from different angles. For example the story of the three blind men describing an elephant by touch, one said it was thin and ropey (he had the tail), the other said it was thick like a tree trunk (he had a leg) and the third said it was shiny and smooth (he had a tusk). Different ways of seeing the same thing?

[davetaff]

Hi
Very true seeker but I do think I have scripture to fall back on.

Isa_46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

When Noah came out of the ark it was the beginning of a new creation so in the lives of Noah and his sons God tells us what is going to Happen and we have this from our lord

Joh 5:46  For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

So one must ask oneself how much of Genesis is about Christ.

Or maybe it's my over active imagination 

Love and Peace
Dave