Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 6958 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #376 on: December 30, 2017, 04:32:54 PM »
Dave, you have in genesis, the fact that Eve found the tree and the fruit good to look at and that it was good for food. Presumable this was because it smelt delicous.

Was there anything special about that fruit? I don't know, I suspect that it was sprcial because God chose it for the purpose of being a test. That in failing they did gain the knowledge of good and evil.

Just as there isnothing in thje bread and wine we eat and drink so I think there was nothing in the fruit.

What of the trees and friut in revelation? Are they real trees growing by the river? I don't know.
I suspect that what the earthly authors struggled to comprehend and write down will be far more wonderfull and splendid then we can imagine.

Online davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #377 on: December 30, 2017, 05:13:14 PM »
Dave, you have in genesis, the fact that Eve found the tree and the fruit good to look at and that it was good for food. Presumable this was because it smelt delicous.

Was there anything special about that fruit? I don't know, I suspect that it was sprcial because God chose it for the purpose of being a test. That in failing they did gain the knowledge of good and evil.

Just as there isnothing in thje bread and wine we eat and drink so I think there was nothing in the fruit.

What of the trees and friut in revelation? Are they real trees growing by the river? I don't know.
I suspect that what the earthly authors struggled to comprehend and write down will be far more wonderfull and splendid then we can imagine.

Hi John
Thanks for your post I find this Question of the trees quite interesting I can agree with you that the tree that Adam and Eve ate from may have been a normal tree God testing there obedience.
but the rest of scripture seams to see tree differently as men kings nations.

Isa 61:3  To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
   


and Israel is seen as a Olive tree  of which Paul says.

Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
     


Even we are seen as a wild Olive tree but we have been grafted into Israel the cultivated olive tree God being the master gardener.

May be God thinks we are all wooden tops.  :wink:

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #378 on: December 30, 2017, 05:36:34 PM »
"May be God thinks we are all wooden tops.  "

I hope not, all I can remember of the wooden tops is the children dancing around singing," sawdust and hay for dinner today!"

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #379 on: January 02, 2018, 12:59:45 PM »

Not quite sure how we put on the new person, which is being renewed into His Image [sounds like a garment that we physically
put on doesn't it?!]

Here you have a person that was once created - now being recreated.

As I understand it the garden of  Eden was fully renewed/ being fully renewed/ and Adam and Eve would have lived forever with God in a perfect state [It is almost as if God knew that they would fall]

However now today in my life - I am like a person putting on a new nature and being transformed / renewed / not fully / but being renewed into God's/ Image/Likeness/ as my old nature has died or is dying and my new nature/image/life/likeness/ is being renewed/restored/

Unlike Adam and Eve / I am now having to put on this garment to see it restored back to God - through the blood of Christ I can now find salvation/ongoing/being renewed/ restored/ back to the way that was intended in the beginning.

In other words "I am now being made into God's Image" OR - "FROM THE OLD TO THE NEW" [the two natures]
@Tes Johnson,

Hi Tes,

Looking at your opening words,  (quote) 'Not quite sure how we put on the new person,': The putting on of the new man, or the new nature, is done by faith's reckoning, isn't it?  The reckoning of faith, which hears what God says, believes it, and lives within the light of it, as a living reality. It is all a matter of believing what God says, as with salvation. Yes?

* You go on to say that, (quote)' ...  the new person, which is being renewed into His Image' : but the new man which we put on by faith, has no need of renewal, for it is perfect, isn't it? 

* The following two verses refer to renewal in relation to the new man, or new nature:-

' For which cause we faint not;
but though our outward man perish,
yet the inward man is renewed day by day.'

(2 Cor.4:16)

' And have put on the new man,
which is renewed in knowledge
after the image of Him that created Him:'

(Col.3:10)

* We see here that the new man (or new nature) is renewed in knowledge - 'after the image of Him that created Him'. It is also being renewed on a daily basis.

Praise God!

* We are told to be renewed in the spirit of our minds, and 'put off' the old man, which is corrupt because of deceitful lusts,:-

'That ye put off concerning the former conversation (ie., manner of life)the old man,
which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man,
which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Wherefore putting away lying,
speak every man truth with his neighbour:
for we are members one of another.'

(Eph 4:22-25)

* The new man is created in righteousness and true holiness, by God Himself, isn't it?
* We are to put it on by the reckoning of faith (by reckoning ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin but alive unto God, through Christ Jesus our Lord). (Romans 6:11)

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris




 





Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #380 on: January 02, 2018, 01:38:05 PM »
'And have put on the new man,
which is renewed in knowledge
after the image of Him that created Him:'

(Co.l 3:10)

* The New man is renewed in knowledge, after the image of Him that created Him, it bears God's likeness, His image.
* The verses that follow (Col 3:12-14) show us what has to be 'put on' by ourselves, the characteristics of God's likeness, portrayed in the new man, these are the fruits of faith's reckoning :-

'Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
.. bowels of mercies,
.... kindness,
...... humbleness of mind,
........ meekness,
.......... longsuffering;
............ Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
..............  And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.'


Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris



 

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #381 on: January 02, 2018, 01:59:53 PM »
'And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.'

(Gen 3:15)

Man, like the material creation in Genesis 1:2, has become a ruin - empty, waste and desolate; and here, as there, the first motion came from God.   In Genesis 1:2-3, 'the Spirit of God moved, ... and God said ... '  and in Genesis 3, 'they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden ... ' (Gen.3:8 ) God was here as ever, the seeker and the finder of lost and hiding sinners.

It is He who first speaks in the first question of the Old Testament, 'Where art thou?'(Gen.3:9), that the sinner may discover his lost and ruined condition; and, in the language of the first question in the New Testament, cry out for the the Saviour, saying, 'Where is He? (Matthew 2:2) Where is the promised Deliverer and Saviour provided for lost sinners? 

Yes it is God who utters the first words of promise, who gives the first gleam of hope, and who declares His eternal purpose, that the head of the serpent which had wrought all the sin and misery, ruin and death, should be crushed by the coming seed of the woman: not by the woman whose false worship is upheld by the uncrushed head of that same serpent, as seen and represented by the pictures and the scriptures of false religion; but by her 'seed' - 'the Son of man'.  In this coming One, and in Him alone, from that moment (Gen.3:15 - above) all hope of future blessing was centred.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Online davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #382 on: January 02, 2018, 02:12:08 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for 2 excellent posts It made me think who is the new man and was wondering could it be a reference to Christ as the last Adam the last man I don't mean Christ is being renewed but his body all believers.

Yes every individual in the body is being renewed  according to Col 3:12-14)    but also the whole body is being renewed being held together by the Holy Spirit in Love.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Cariad

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #383 on: January 02, 2018, 02:42:28 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for 2 excellent posts It made me think who is the new man and was wondering could it be a reference to Christ as the last Adam the last man I don't mean Christ is being renewed but his body all believers.

Yes every individual in the body is being renewed  according to Col 3:12-14)    but also the whole body is being renewed being held together by the Holy Spirit in Love.

Love and Peace
Dave
@davetaff

Hi Dave,

The New Man (as you know) is another name for the new nature that the believer receives, as one who has been born from above, by the Spirit of God, on the basis of the finished, sacrificial work of Christ the Son, by the will of God the Father.  It is not a reference to Christ Himself.

Although the New Nature is also spoken of as 'Christ Spirit (pnuema Christu), or the spirit of Christ which indwells the believer in the form of the new nature.

In Christ Jesus
Chris