Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5911 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #296 on: December 05, 2016, 12:28:36 AM »
I understand - it is Christmas.


Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #297 on: December 06, 2016, 04:22:48 PM »
Hi Q

You said
Quote
okay answer this.

Look at Genesis 7:1 : The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.


This was before any preaching or any warning to that generation - God had already chosen who would be on the Ark....

God told Noah that he and his family would be saved [as through the waters] so why did Noah warn of this inpending disaster ?

No one else was chosen you see - not anyone that died in the flood - but only Noah and his family.....

So why do we plant and preach - when God has already chosen ....

Modify message
 

I have wondered about these things I always come back to the same old question was it a flood of real water or was it a flood of spiritual water.
was Everest covered in water dose not seem reasonable or was it jest a local flood how many people were living in the world at that time.
I have the same problem with the flood as with the lake of fire would the God of Love annihilate the entire population of the planet I hope not.
So a little speculation If the water was the word of God that was preached from Seth until Noah there would have bean some that would be saved one would think then we have the thought that the flood was a form of baptism it would mean that mankind would have died to be reborn to God.

So why was Noah and his family chosen and all the animals maybe it was so the human race and the animals could continue and multiply I believe this was the start of a new creation.

Love and Peace
Dave         

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #298 on: December 07, 2016, 02:49:10 AM »

Again I reiterate this point


Don't be scared of seeing things as literal as this can cause everything to be made "spiritual"

This is an easier way of explaining something - but is avoiding the real answers.

Yes it was real water and yes the land where Noah was was flooded with real water.

I have seen people block out certain parts of the bible until such a time as they can understand it and another way is to spiritualise the subject - until it is understood.

There are things we will never understand and this is not a weakness on our part.

Yes it is hard to understand why God allows people [in His permissive Will]  to destroy themselves ....

You might ask now "how could people cause a flood that destoys people ?"

They do not seem to have caused this tragedy themselves "as they cannot permit rain"

Was the flood caused by God or by spiritual forces allowed by God.

But go to the context of why the flood happened [the same might applied  to Nineveh when it was eventually destroyed by the Medes and prophesied by Nahum - read Nahum 2:1-13:

First you see God's mercy where He awaits peoples repentance [with Jonah] but then you see Nahum and his prophesy .

God will not contend with us forever - Genesis 6:3:

There is a time when God will simply let us go our own way [as He see's that we will never repent]

see : Luke 16:28-31 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.? 29?Abraham replied, ?They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.?
30? ?No, father Abraham,? he said, ?but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.?
31?He said to him, ?If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.? ?


Don't spiritualise this to make it make sense [there will be a time when you and I will understand it]


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #299 on: December 07, 2016, 03:05:40 AM »
I  understand the spiritual  emphasis - where many are baptised [without ever being baptised in literal water]

Yet many are batised in the Spiritual sense - without ever being batised in a literal sense.

But the flood was  a literal flood and if it was not then "then how would you now make it spiritual" ?

I might be baptised in a spiritual way - but never make it public...

In the same way "I may be a member of the Church" but never be a member of the Church "because it is neer made public/witness

I mean did the ark float on a spiritual water and was the rain a spiritual rain ?


You decide - within your will and insight -however - Jesus died a literal death and the disciples died an awfull death - you may now spiritualise their deaths - but the literal is still evident.




Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #300 on: December 07, 2016, 04:22:09 PM »
Hi Q
Thank's for your replies and can agree with what you say I never meant to imply I believed what I wrote but jest wondered about these thing's and if we have no scriptural evidence for what we believe about something then it's best jest to believe the written word because it is the word of God and it is the truth.
Having said that I do believe there are different levels in scripture Or as St Paul puts it.

 Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Eph 3:17  That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18  May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19  And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So I like to wonder and think about the word of God and if something comes to mind I search for scriptures to support it.

so as far as Noah's flood is concerned I have no scripture's to support my theory of a spiritual flood so I take comfort in the fact that all those who died in the flood will be raised up on the last day.
 
Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #301 on: December 07, 2016, 05:29:13 PM »
Well does salvation from bad events in life .. really have anything to do with our eternal ..destiny

By that I mean = Moses was saved from pharoah  and from the events that happened in the desert, but never entered the promised land, however Joshua did..

Does that mean Moses never stood in heaven with God   Matthew 17:3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

I do not see Joshua here !

Neither does it mean that Joshua was not there..



But you a right about spiritual things - as all things come from God who is Spirit

So spiritual becomes literal / has spiritual meanings



Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #302 on: December 09, 2016, 04:19:59 PM »
Hi Q
Thanks for your reply Moses did not enter the promised land because he trespassed against the lord as did all the older generation.

Deu 32:49  Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession:
Deu 32:50  And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Deu 32:51  Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.
Deu 32:52  Yet thou shalt see the land before thee; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel.

But Joshua and the younger generation did I think we have a lesson to learn here but I will need to think about it.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #303 on: January 30, 2017, 02:35:23 PM »
Hi
So what do we learn from Israel entering the promised land all the older generation died in the desert except for Joshua and Caleb I believe that this is a prophecy of sorts.
Joshua represents Jesus there names mean the same God saves Joshua and the younger generation represents Christ and the church Its God choosing the younger son again the older son being Israel the younger son Christ.

Jos_21:44  And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

And he will do the same for us

Love and Peace
Dave