Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5960 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #288 on: December 02, 2016, 01:04:39 AM »
Don't be scared of seeing things as literal as this can cause everything to be made "spiritual"

This is an easier way of explaining something - but is avoiding the real answers.

Yes it was real water and yes the land where Noah was was flooded with real water.

I have seen people block out certain parts of the bible until such a time as they can understand it and another way is to spiritualise the subject - until it is understood.

There are things we will never understand and this is not a weakness on our part.

Yes it is hard to understand why God allows people [in His permissive Will]  to destroy themselves ....

You might ask now "how could people cause a flood that destoys people ?"

They do not seem to have caused this tragedy themselves "as they cannot permit rain"

Was the flood caused by God or by spiritual forces allowed by God.

But go to the context of why the flood happened [the same might applied  to Nineveh when it was eventually destroyed by the Medes and prophesied by Nahum - read Nahum 2:1-13:

First you see God's mercy where He awaits peoples repentance [with Jonah] but then you see Nahum and his prophesy .

God will not contend with us forever - Genesis 6:3:

There is a time when God will simply let us go our own way [as He see's that we will never repent]

see : Luke 16:28-31 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.? 29?Abraham replied, ?They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.?
30? ?No, father Abraham,? he said, ?but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.?
31?He said to him, ?If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.? ?


Don't spiritualise this to make it make sense [there will be a time when you and I will understand it]





Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #289 on: December 02, 2016, 01:14:37 AM »
Yes it does go on to make a spiritual point in 1 Peter 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,



And 2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;


Contrast this with Isaiah 43:2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze.

This is metaphor language and the latter is not - but the  latter made into a lesson for us to learn from.




Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #290 on: December 02, 2016, 01:21:44 AM »
Thus some chose to be baptised in water and again this is another symbol of rebirth [but done publicly to acknowledge and declare our death and new life]

Don't get mixed up between real time events and metaphors and symbols.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptised in water by Philip and philip was then translated to another place Acts 8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Philip  was taken up and moved away to another place [not heaven]



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #291 on: December 02, 2016, 01:33:19 AM »
Hi Q
Thanks for your replies nice to know I am not alone, Just thinking of the passage you quoted do you think it was the water they used for baptism or was it the water of the word of God Philip used to cleans the eunuch.
And in like manner was Noah's flood a literal flood of water in which God drowned the entire population of the world and saved jest eight people I have problems with this and the lake of fire.
or was it a great spiritual flood of Gods word that washed them clean jest having a little muse.

Love and Peace
Dave

Thanks for the honest question which has excited me.

The fire can be seen with the lesson of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah--from the LORD out of the heavens.

Note the final words "from the LORD out of the heavens"

Does'nt [SEEM] go with God's Character does it ?

In one way you might explain this by saying "God refines us" Daniel 3:23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace.

But this was a literal event which can be used as a metaphor or lesson to us. [who believe or are God's]

Whereas the latter being Soddom and gomorrah is a lesson and literal but not refining - but death. [as was the flood]

Life to some but to others the smell of death 2 Corinthians 2:16










Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #292 on: December 02, 2016, 04:24:31 PM »
Hi Q
Thanks for your replies you raise some interesting points i wood like to concentrate on Noah's flood if I may to see if I can make some sense of it.

Gen 7:1  And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Was it only Noah who was righteous or all his house if his sons and wife were no righteous why were the saved.
As I see it  he flood was a type of baptism everyone died in the flood bar Noah and his family in the same vain when we get baptised do we not also die to be reborn.
Did the same thing happen to all those who died in the flood receive  new life remember God was preached from Seth onward one would think there would be more than Noah who were righteous.

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #293 on: December 03, 2016, 01:47:06 AM »
Hi Q
Thanks for your replies you raise some interesting points i wood like to concentrate on Noah's flood if I may to see if I can make some sense of it.

Gen 7:1  And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Was it only Noah who was righteous or all his house if his sons and wife were no righteous why were the saved.
As I see it  he flood was a type of baptism everyone died in the flood bar Noah and his family in the same vain when we get baptised do we not also die to be reborn.
Did the same thing happen to all those who died in the flood receive  new life remember God was preached from Seth onward one would think there would be more than Noah who were righteous.

Love and Peace
Dave



Quote
Quote
Was it only Noah who was righteous or all his house if his sons and wife were no righteous why were the saved




@davetaff , okay answer this.

Look at Genesis 7:1 : The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.


This was before any preaching or any warning to that generation - God had already chosen who would be on the Ark....

God told Noah that he and his family would be saved [as through the waters] so why did Noah warn of this inpending disaster ?

No one else was chosen you see - not anyone that died in the flood - but only Noah and his family.....

So why do we plant and preach - when God has already chosen ....


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #294 on: December 04, 2016, 01:13:41 AM »
Look at Genesis 7:1 : The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.

I must add Genesis 18:24-32

This was about fire .

This relevant as "where do you find the same in the new testament - as the new reveals the old and the old is a shadow".

I look forward to your replies @davetaff as you have been absent of late. [but a few days]




Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #295 on: December 04, 2016, 10:20:24 AM »
Hi Q
I have not bean very active because I have a surprise visit from abroad so busy with family will be rack soon.

Love and Peace
Dave