Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5964 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #232 on: July 20, 2016, 01:27:45 AM »
Now ask me where we are going and what my vision for the future is ... for 1faith.co.uk   ?

Haha / don't ask me / ask God.



I will add one more thing to this great topic..

No one knows what will happen when they marry someone.................

You cannot depict it from "shadows"  or "types"

I would add "have you ever heard of any people in the bible getting divorced ?"

I would suggest that there is a shadow






TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #233 on: July 20, 2016, 01:53:20 AM »
I know plenty of scriptures about divorce BTW

But tell me one scripture about a divorce between two people [apart from God and Israel]

I will let differnet people  pick up on certain things that leap out

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #234 on: July 21, 2016, 01:35:02 AM »
What I am saying is "do you think there might be shadows to which there is no substance  ?

As when Christ gave Israel a cerificate of divorce [given when divorce was unheard of]

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.





TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #235 on: July 21, 2016, 02:25:20 AM »
ok I will answer my own question

The husband in later biblcal times could divorce his wife at his own pleasure [as he was the head] in the same way Abraham dismissed Hagar . Genesis 21:14;  Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the Desert of Beersheba.

Thus this law is carried into the written word :


We see the pharisses asking Mark 10:2-12  2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, ?Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife??3 ?What did Moses command you?? he replied.4 They said, ?Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.?5 ?It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,?

You might ask was Abraham married to hagar ? and that is another question.

But Jesus did not divorce hagar as He appears to her as "the Angel of The Lord" Genesis 16:7:  The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur.

Here the uncreated Angel appears to hagar and speaks to her - of course this leads on to the modern day Arabs  and the Arab states.

Were some would suggest "God has divorced them" but did not divorce hagar.

Confusing is'nt it ?

So to put it simply Jesus appeared to hagar and spoke to her [usually this would be seen in this day and age as a really spiritual christian who we must book up to speak - [ like the box jellyfish man]


So now out of this shadow of divorce  [Abraham/Hagar] we have the Israeli - Arab / Palestinian conflict !

Basically I agree with shadows - but shadows are simple understanding of more complex relationships.

That change from generation to generation. [the same as metaphors are simple pictures conveyed to us that form a more complex picture]

As a picture paints a thousand words to us - but each person will see the picture in a different way..





Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #236 on: July 21, 2016, 02:40:42 PM »
Hi TJ
Good post lots of interesting points made much food for thought was Abraham and Hagar married what constitutes marriage our Lord said.

 Mat 19:6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Not sure what that means dose mean when they are joined together to have children they become one and should remain together for life on the other hand what dose what God has joined together mean the only thing I can think of is the rapture when Christ and his church be come one.

The other interesting thing about Sarah and Hagar is what St Paul has to say about them.

Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

It would seam from this that it is Israel which is in bondage and the church is the Jerusalem from above which is free interesting how Paul sees the above text as two covenants another picture pointing to Christ and his Bride.

The angel of the Lord who spoke to Hagar do you think this was a Christophany I know it says angel but that only means messenger could mean God the fathers messenger which of course is Christ May be an interesting line to follow being we are looking for Christ in the OT.

Love and Peace
Dave

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #237 on: July 22, 2016, 12:57:29 AM »
Quote
Quote
Good post lots of interesting points made much food for thought was Abraham and Hagar married what constitutes marriage our Lord said.

 Mat 19:6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Exaclty - however the question now is "Does God always join people together" or can a marriage be simply  about "the thing to do" or "about money" or "children",, etc... I would suggest not all unities are to do with God.

However coming from a differnet angle "I might suggest that some marriages that are of God may not unite - as in remain together"

Or have "the blessing" as with Kentura [yet a miracle]




TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #238 on: July 22, 2016, 01:28:49 AM »
It would seam from this that it is Israel which is in bondage and the church is the Jerusalem from above which is free interesting how Paul sees the above text as two covenants another picture pointing to Christ and his Bride.

Actually Hagar was a bond servant to Sarah [not Abraham]  - it's about the old awl and the door Exodus 21:5-6: and we can also be bond servants to Christ ! 1 Corinthians 7:22:

Exodus 21:2 is a shadow    :) of the servant being made free ...

But we see in the same sense we are made servants to Christ !







TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #239 on: July 22, 2016, 01:30:44 AM »
The usual message now is about the miracle of the birth between sarah and Abraham being at such an age of one hundred years
of age and how Abraham laughed :  see =  Genesis 17:17:


But actually Abraham had more children after the death of Sarah ? but it is never preached about- because these children
were not part of any promise or covenant and were not mentioned in the New Testament and they are the son's of Keturah
who Abraham united with after the death of Sarah in Genesis 25:1  Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah.

This means Abrahaam  was actually over 140  years of age at this point ! and he actually lived 175 years...Genesis 25:7

1 Chronicles 1:32  The sons born to Keturah, Abraham's concubine: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah.
 The sons of Jokshan: Sheba and Dedan


Now to some believers now  - this would be unheard of ! Abraham married again after Sarah ?

It is not preached on because the Holy Spirit does not draw this out [even though the Holy Spirit does in scripture]