Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5944 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #200 on: July 05, 2016, 04:20:44 AM »
And lastly .


why would people be invited to a banquest "of the Groom and the Bride ?"

These are indeed guests and not the "chosen Bride" !

You see now how parables and anti types /typology/images/pictures/.conveyed - fail when they are taken beyond there meaning [at their and in their time]

These meanings are only meant to be within their context and time, and although they send messages to us now - they are only inspired by the Holy Spirit within us - to convey a message now.

In other words if I do "the word" and act as Jeroboam" I am not God's [just chosen by Solomon]

If I act on the Word and "act as Israel" I am not God's [just chosen by Israel]

Yet some were exiled and returned [yet another shadow but real event] re :Babylon

And so parables only eixst within there context and types only live within their time.

They can be estended to our own lives - but be careful with this as - scripture is limited - whereas my life is not [my personal covenant]

Hope that makes sense





Offline kim

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #201 on: July 05, 2016, 07:49:04 AM »
Hi TJ

Phew, there's a lot there! I think you lost me on most of it. Are you saying that God doesn't always welcome back those who repent?  I don't see that in Scripture, so is this from your personal experience? 

In the parable of the wedding banquet, the guest was rejected for trying to enter on his own terms rather than entering in the way the host had provided.  The host provided the wedding garments - the guest only had to put it on, but presumably refused, as he was thrown out for not wearing it. 

In the same way God has provided a way for us to enter his presence - through Jesus' death for us.  Our wedding garment is the robe of righteousness that God gives us (despite our own unrighteousness!) because we have chosen to join ourselves to his totally-righteous son Jesus.  God has called us to enter, and made it possible for us to enter, but we still have the choice whether to do it his way or to try it our own way. 

Jeroboam was called by God, but like you say he seems to have decided to do it his own way and never (so far as we know) turned to God's way.  So God let him go, though it must have saddened him.  I still think that if Jeroboam had turned back and followed God's way, the Father would have welcomed him, just as he would welcome back everyone today who realises they can't get to God by their own efforts and accepts the way God has provided.  What do you think?

Blessings
Kim

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #202 on: July 05, 2016, 02:30:12 PM »

 Are you saying that God doesn't always welcome back those who repent? 

No, He does [as with Luke 18:13 ]

Also remember that we are talking about kings here / chosen by people

Look @ Deuteronomy 17:15 be sure to appoint over you a king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your fellow Israelites. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not an Israelite.

So king Jeroboam was an Ephraimite from the tribe of Ephraim..and just because he was in government does not mean God chose him.

and so to him/her who is given much is much expected and anyone who leads little ones astray ....Mark 9:42

So lets make this even more thoughtful by adding this scripture Romans 13:1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.





TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #203 on: July 06, 2016, 01:26:28 AM »
One more thing I would like to add...

The parable of the prodigal son can  have a meaning for individuals - but can be  seen as Israel returning [the two houses of Rehoboam and Jeroboam]

Quote
Phew, there's a lot there! I think you lost me on most of it. Are you saying that God doesn't always welcome back those who repent?  I don't see that in Scripture, so is this from your personal experience?
@kim

Now can God reject a person or a nation ?  well lets look at Matthew 5:31 and Jeremiah 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.


TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #204 on: July 06, 2016, 02:25:31 AM »
I suppose it depends how you see this analogy [of the prodigal son]

The actual  metaphor is about Israel and is about a  Jewish family in that day [hence only the men are noted]

We see that the exiled returned to babylon but many were lost [when  Israel was in the wilderness ]

We only see the visual and not the stuff that goes on after death [only those things the Holy Spirit wants to demonstrate to us - that is the things God's Holy Spirit draws out for our lessons and learning]

Eg: those who worshipped the golden calf were destoyed in the early days of Israel's wilderness wanderings [having returned to the Father] and following Jesus - Exodus 13:21;



The One who led Israel out of Egypt [by a cloud and fire by night]  was the covenant Maker  - the Lord - The One who appeared in or as the "Burning bush" - a blood covenant was  made - as in Genesis 15:17: When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces.


You see now the division ?  the divorce !  the Chosen had cried out to God and God [the Father] had heard the cries of His people [note]

God mothered and Fathered them and nurtured them - out of Egypt and their bondage [until they put themselves back in bondage]

Now back to Aaron the priest.... who was with the people while they used everything that was valuables to them to "create the golden calf]

Now remember I am using  these two parallels, between God's chosen and Jeroboam are all to do with "repentance or death"

[as we are accountable] in this life............

Now listen all who have ears..... and Kim  :D

We have Jesus in the OT ? okay well then how can the OT delete us from the book of life ? As in Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said to Moses, Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Now again this is the fault of parables and metaphors which we take so literal .

As no one in His book can be blotted out - or can they >?

see : Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Now over to you ........................... for the question "have I ever experienced God's rejection in my life !"


It is a lot to take in and it needs thought and you need to look within yourself for the answer



TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #205 on: July 06, 2016, 02:45:46 AM »
It seems to be evident that God does reject people. [forgetting about metaphors and parables]

Now forget about the OT and go to the NT and we see another "example that the Holy Spirit draws out from History"

So we go to Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5.....

And the early Church in Jerusalem ... again this is God's Judgement in the here and now [not after death]

Now after death wer they rejected ? it seems they were prodigals returning to the Father ?

Now most Christians [so named at antioch] would now say "were they ever saved "born again" ? [that is Ananias and Sapphira]

Well it is quite evident that we all lie - in fact everyday - and why would we not try to keep back some things from God ?

Do not we all do that ?

So I would suggest that we all experience God's rejection at some point in our lifes..
. [whether it is of God or simply "us" thinking God has left ]

[It's the Human Psyche - from the first time a baby can't see their mother]



As not all things that we marry too - are of God.

And even those things that are of God we may reject and make into a calf. [therefore can God be or feel rejected - I would suggest He can]








TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #206 on: July 06, 2016, 03:02:31 AM »
Now going to @davetaff post about Aaron being a type of Christ

I wonder why the high priest Aaron was not made responsible for the people creating the golden calf while Moses was on the sinia mountain talking to God ?

Many lost their lives on that day - yet Aaron was not made accountable ?

Now we do see that Aaron never entered the promised land ?  neither did Moses !

This was the land flowing with milk and honey ?  Acts 7:51  "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!


So who is "born again" ?

What a rejection..




Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #207 on: July 06, 2016, 04:18:08 PM »
Now going to @davetaff post about Aaron being a type of Christ

I wonder why the high priest Aaron was not made responsible for the people creating the golden calf while Moses was on the sinia mountain talking to God ?

Many lost their lives on that day - yet Aaron was not made accountable ?

Now we do see that Aaron never entered the promised land ?  neither did Moses !

This was the land flowing with milk and honey ?  Acts 7:51  "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!


So who is "born again" ?

What a rejection..

Hi TJ
I think Aaron was made accountable in a way he was refused entry into the promised land only two people who left Egypt of 20 years and more entered into the promised land that was Joshua and Caleb.
I believe the promised land represents the new earth god will create for us as stated in revelations interesting to note that the names Joshua and Jesus mean the same God saves.
I also believe when Israel passed through the Jordan river it represented being born again the first time they were born was when they passed through the Red sea.
As for Moses I believe he must have bean saved because

 Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

And nobody Knows where Moses body is or is buried.

Love and Peace
Dave