Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5940 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #168 on: June 27, 2016, 02:27:54 PM »
Covenants can be broken. This is the current problem with Judaism. They still believe that because they were once God's chosen people, this will stand for eternity. The Torah is obsolete. Gone. Finished. That means the covenant is broken. The new covenant is with the messiah, they will never accept that and therefore still following a set of rules that are useless

True covenants can be broken

Not sure what you mean by "The Torah is obsolete."  ?unless you mean the observance of it


Offline David St Ives

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #169 on: June 27, 2016, 03:02:50 PM »
The Torah is only of historical value in relation to understanding the new covenant of Christ. It holds no spiritual weight, it will not lead you to the father. Like the Ark of the covenant, much to the surprise of Eli, it became redundant. It's value lies in the importance of understanding how sinful and rebellious man was towards God, the repercussions of those actions and the nature of Gods love. Even after the many generations of selfish and sinful people, God so loved his children that he begot his only son for their sins. The ultimate sacrifice from a loving creator.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #170 on: June 27, 2016, 03:37:15 PM »
I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It's simple. The old covenant is gone= Torah. Those who lived then would be judged by it. The new covenant= Y'ashuwa/Jesus is what we are now judged by. The almighty has changed the rules. It's simple.

Hi David and welcome
I don' t think I can agree with the above I seams to go against what our lord had to say.

 Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law tells us what sin is although we are not under the law but under grace we can still break the law and become sinners the only difference is we can have forgiveness through his blood.
Our Lord gave us a better way to obey the law.

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

So if we Love as we should and as our Lord tells us we comply with all the laws of the old testament and not forgetting.

2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

>Hi TJ
jest wondering about these covenants a covenant is an agreement between two parties has to be ratified between both parties I still can't find anything in scripture that would correspond to a covenant between father and son I can find promises God made to his son but I don't think a promise is the same as a covenant could be wrong.
You said in one of your posts that God made a mistake do you mean the creator of the universe and everything in it made a mistake I can't see that as a remote possibility God don't make mistakes every thing he dose has a purpose we may not understand it but it is not a mistake.

In one of your posts you mentioned the trinity do you mean God made a covenant with himself bit strange don't you think.

Hi Kim
Liked you posts good read

Love and Peace
Dave

     

Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #171 on: June 27, 2016, 03:37:45 PM »
Yep Geneses etc is as redundant as the foundations of your home are.
Talk to a builder or your councils planning dept about removing the foundations and see what they say.
Just as your house will fall down with no foundation so Christianity fails without genesis.

Offline David St Ives

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #172 on: June 27, 2016, 03:41:50 PM »
Can anyone explain to me what part of the Torah they follow

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #173 on: June 27, 2016, 04:22:35 PM »
Yep Geneses etc is as redundant as the foundations of your home are.
Talk to a builder or your councils planning dept about removing the foundations and see what they say.
Just as your house will fall down with no foundation so Christianity fails without genesis.

Hi John
Wish i'd said that very good analogy

Hi David you said
Quote
Can anyone explain to me what part of the Torah they follow
 

We don't necessarily follow the Torah as such but use it as an anchor for our belief in Christ without the OT how would we know Jesus was Gods son.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline David St Ives

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #174 on: June 27, 2016, 07:05:35 PM »
When I refer to the Torah, I'm referring to the laws and customs that were followed. I've already stated that the the historical importance is valid for understanding why the new covenant was necessary. People appear to constantly miss the point. Having the knowledge of genesis and the understanding of the 12 tribes will not bring you salvation or the spirit of truth. The foundations of your relationship with God are found in the New Testament, you have to bear your cross daily and live by the words of the Messiah. Your council, builder or foundation stone is in Christ, not genesis.

Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #175 on: June 27, 2016, 08:09:19 PM »
How do you know who Jesus is? Why did he tell the scribes etc that Moses and the prophets wrote about him?
Yes as Christians we stand on faith in Jesus, but are faith is based on all that the bibleteaches not just the bits we like.
It is not our task to cut bits out of the bible. Our task is to live for Jesus.