Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5926 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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Offline kim

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #120 on: June 21, 2016, 09:52:50 PM »
Hi All
Many thanks for all the food for thought.
A Scripture that I came across 'by chance' (yeah, I know!!) today might also be relevant: in Acts 7:38 Stephen describes the Jews led by Moses as "the assembly of God's people in the wilderness" and my Study Bible tells me the word translated here as 'assembly' is 'ekklesia' - the same word used by first-century Christians for their church/community. In other words, Israel was the 'church in the wilderness'.  He then says (Acts 7:39) "But they refused to listen to Moses.  They rejected him and wanted to return to Egypt"... which led to the making of the calf idol and the murder of Stephen.  So maybe the Jews were indeed God's 'called out ones' or 'chosen ones' (the original meaning of ekklesia) but they broke the covenant by disobedience/refusing to listen?  But we've all disobeyed and refused to listen at times, and God hasn't rejected us, so I'm not sure where that leaves the Jews.  Any thoughts anyone?
Blessings
Kim



TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2016, 01:47:12 AM »
Quote
Quote
  So maybe the Jews were indeed God's 'called out ones' or 'chosen ones' (the original meaning of ekklesia

Excellent @kim  :D - you have been reading the postings.....



We have to remember that @davetaff - Revelation is  symbolic language ..

Much like "a lot of the the New testament" is metaphor  langaiuge !

The four  winds blow here as the  tribes Revelation 7:4 suddenly change their order and the names of the tribes also change/ as do the numbers.



Do we really believe that God only sows a certain number of seeds and that a certain number will be saved ?

Or do we believe that heaven has its gates open to all who believe ?

Is there really a restriction on "how many will be saved " ?

If so - we may as well "give up on evangelism - as God only cals those He has chosen anyway and all those who respond are those like the pharisee's and the sadducees and God is only selective when it comes to salvation [depending on how many doors we knock on]








TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2016, 02:04:49 AM »
This leads  [in my mind/spirit] to - satan being saved as he beleves in God and talks to Him..

BELIEVE is the biggy here/ as most believe in a God or god [and god is before He becomes God to some] do you really believe that satan cares about "how much you believe ? " come on....satan knows and does not just believe...[do you really believe that he being an arch angel would not know God >?]

Having destroyed millions/billions/ by his blinding.

Being the antichrist destroying all in his wake.

Being the one who never repents [God does not provide rententance for angels]

satan is evil and will destroy as many as possible - he hates God and all that follow Him.

Yet satan knows the mind of God,His character, His ways, His ekklesia)

We cannot limit God by His scripture -  but in the same way we cannot speak outside of His Word and we discern things by His word [living word]

So in this - I  have expanded the analogy of numbers to include "all who believe" for a reason...




TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #123 on: June 22, 2016, 02:10:53 AM »
So firslty - the numbers are symbolic and not to be used -  as a "Religion"

Secondly - how do we define belief ?

Thirdly - interpration of symbols and metaphors can be misleading.

Fourthly  - Relationship - is open to counterfeit - as satan has a relationship with God and emotions can be misleading -feelings also are prone to attack [do you really believe "that satan and his myriads do not have feelings and emotions ?



I would suggest that heaven is an expanding Kingdom where homes and rooms are being prepared . [present tense]



OOPs - Is'nt that a suggestion that the expanding Kingdom of God is revelant to the expanding universe @John ?

No no surely - the two would not equate !




Offline John

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #124 on: June 22, 2016, 08:57:42 AM »
tj, why do you link the expansion of God's kingdom with the expansion of the universe? They are unrelated. One is physical and the other is spiritual.

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #125 on: June 22, 2016, 01:32:23 PM »
tj, why do you link the expansion of God's kingdom with the expansion of the universe? They are unrelated. One is physical and the other is spiritual.

Sounded good though

Offline davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #126 on: June 22, 2016, 03:50:18 PM »
Hi All
Many thanks for all the food for thought.
A Scripture that I came across 'by chance' (yeah, I know!!) today might also be relevant: in Acts 7:38 Stephen describes the Jews led by Moses as "the assembly of God's people in the wilderness" and my Study Bible tells me the word translated here as 'assembly' is 'ekklesia' - the same word used by first-century Christians for their church/community. In other words, Israel was the 'church in the wilderness'.  He then says (Acts 7:39) "But they refused to listen to Moses.  They rejected him and wanted to return to Egypt"... which led to the making of the calf idol and the murder of Stephen.  So maybe the Jews were indeed God's 'called out ones' or 'chosen ones' (the original meaning of ekklesia) but they broke the covenant by disobedience/refusing to listen?  But we've all disobeyed and refused to listen at times, and God hasn't rejected us, so I'm not sure where that leaves the Jews.  Any thoughts anyone?
Blessings

Kim

Hi Kim
Thanks for your post Good food for thought here's a few verses to think on.

Hos 11:1  When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

I think this applies to Israel and Christ Israel was Gods son but he was not one person but a multitude Israel was born through water the red sea into the wilderness totally reliant on God but they rebelled and all those 20 years and over died in the desert.
Christ also went up to Egypt and came back when it was safe to do so Here we see a pattern emerging I believe Israel is Adam or a representation of the first Adam Christ of course is the last Adam so I think there will be similarities between the two.
The story of Israel and the church are very similar they start out well but soon go of the rails Christ brings them back but soon revert to there bad habits the only difference now is if we sin we have forgiveness through the blood of Christ but if Israel sinned they only had the punishment the law proscribed.

Hi TJ
Sorry but I have trouble understanding what your trying to say can you interpret please.

Love and Peace
Dave         

Offline kim

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #127 on: June 22, 2016, 09:40:47 PM »
Hi Everyone
Just wondering - Dave quite rightly pointed out in his last post the similarities between Israel and the church, in that both started with good intentions but couldn't keep it up.  But if Israel has no access to grace, only the penalties prescribed by the law, how come God forgave King David for committing murder and adultery? And I seem to remember one of the later kings (was it Hezekiah?) had his punishment of death rescinded because he repented.  And the nation of Nineveh repented when Jonah finally warned then and God spared them.  I'm sure there must be lots more examples.  It seems God was a merciful God all along, although it does seem a bit 'arbitrary' in the Old Testament - some folk were treated quite harshly whilst others were shown mercy!  But grace certainly seems to have been available pre-Christ? 
Still musing ...
Kim