Author Topic: Genesis and the OT  (Read 5946 times)

Description: Finding Christ in the OT

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TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2016, 01:07:47 AM »
That's great but it does'nt answer How Saul was rejected and David and solomon were accepted.

As King Saul also responded to the call and was chosen !

Israel was not rejected - in fact we are grafted into the Vine along with Israel.  Romans 11:17;



taking the simple metaphor of Saul being rejected and therfore Israel being rejected is too easy and an incomplete picture.

So I have to disagree with this metaphor @davetaff

As Saul did not have parts saved and other parts not saved,

We are only ingrafted into the Vine by God's Grace along with Israel

This analogy of the the three people in History - sounds good but does not stand up.

As Moses /David/Solomon/ were part of the Jewish nation and therefore are also rejected

But a good try  :D



Online davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #113 on: June 20, 2016, 02:26:34 PM »
That's great but it does'nt answer How Saul was rejected and David and solomon were accepted.

As King Saul also responded to the call and was chosen !

Israel was not rejected - in fact we are grafted into the Vine along with Israel.  Romans 11:17;



taking the simple metaphor of Saul being rejected and therfore Israel being rejected is too easy and an incomplete picture.

So I have to disagree with this metaphor @davetaff

As Saul did not have parts saved and other parts not saved,

We are only ingrafted into the Vine by God's Grace along with Israel

This analogy of the the three people in History - sounds good but does not stand up.

As Moses /David/Solomon/ were part of the Jewish nation and therefore are also rejected

But a good try  :D

Hi TJ
Saul was rejected as king when disobeyed Gods command to totally destroy the  Amalekites so Saul lost his kingship because of disobedience 

1Sa 15:22  And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23  For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Yes Saul was chosen as king but was rejected as Israel was rejected when they rejected there king Jesus Christ this is the branches being broken off but they will be grafted in again and all Israel will be saved even Saul.

Love and Peace
Dave

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #114 on: June 20, 2016, 02:49:51 PM »

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Yes Saul was chosen as king but was rejected as Israel was rejected when they rejected there king Jesus Christ this is the branches being broken off but they will be grafted in again and all Israel will be saved even Saul.


thanks davetaff   :grin:

Takes us too :

Romans 11:26  and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

This verse is  open to interpretation ! 

It means [if read as written] and includes [ALL ISRAEL]

EG: The rich young ruler, the pharisees/sadducees,  Herold  Antipas, Jezebel, Abimelchk,  etc


Online davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2016, 03:52:24 PM »



thanks davetaff   :grin:

Takes us too :

Romans 11:26  and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.




This verse is  open to interpretation ! 

It means [if read as written] and includes [ALL ISRAEL]

EG: The rich young ruler, the pharisees/sadducees,  Herold  Antipas, Jezebel, Abimelchk,  etc

Hi TJ
Then we have these verses to consider

Rom 9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Who are the children of the promise

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline kim

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2016, 09:24:35 PM »
Hi TJ, Dave and anyone else reading this!
Have been away for a couple of days but am catching up with interest.
Am I reading this correctly  - are we saying that when Scripture says "all Israel will be saved" that means all 'spiritual Israel' (ie those who believe God's promise) rather than 'all the Jewish nation'?  So the followers of God's Word (Jesus) (ie the Christian church) have inherited all the promises made to 'Israel' ... we are now the new Israel?
If so, where does that leave the Jewish nation?  Do they still have any special role, or are they simply free to come to God through Jesus (ie become Christians) in the same way everyone else can?  Ideas please!

Thank you.  May our Lord bless you abundantly.
Kim



Offline francis drake

Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #117 on: June 20, 2016, 10:29:01 PM »
Hi TJ, Dave and anyone else reading this!
Have been away for a couple of days but am catching up with interest.
Am I reading this correctly  - are we saying that when Scripture says "all Israel will be saved" that means all 'spiritual Israel' (ie those who believe God's promise) rather than 'all the Jewish nation'?  So the followers of God's Word (Jesus) (ie the Christian church) have inherited all the promises made to 'Israel' ... we are now the new Israel?
If so, where does that leave the Jewish nation?  Do they still have any special role, or are they simply free to come to God through Jesus (ie become Christians) in the same way everyone else can?  Ideas please!

Thank you.  May our Lord bless you abundantly.
Kim

Very busy right now so can't say much, but no matter what, Israel as a Jewish nation is most certainly preserved to the end. The church has not replaced Israel, but merely been grafted on to it.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2016, 03:47:41 AM »
Hey @francis drake .

So is all Israel saved ?

That is all Israel [whether acting badly or not] are already saved regardless of their actions ?

Because they beleive in God who is Jesus !

As obvoiusly - the pharisees did and acted on God's word...




Online davetaff

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Re: Genesis and the OT
« Reply #119 on: June 21, 2016, 03:29:46 PM »
Hi
I think we need to look at Revelations

 Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

!2 000 from each tribe are these the ones of the promise as I posted before.

Rom 9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

144 000 is not a great deal of people out of all the Jews that have been born is it only those who have a direct decent to Issac who are Israel what of the rest if they claim there descent from Abraham the man of faith will they be saved through faith the same as us Christians.
How will they be saved who have not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ I believe it will be in the millennial reign of Christ may that day come soon.

Hi Kim
I hope this answers some of you questions it's a big subject  you asked
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Do they still have any special role,   
I believe so they where cut of when they crucified our Lord in spiritual sense Israel died but they will be raised up again which has happened in part  they are back in there own land albeit only part of the total territory they had before.
Its interesting if we take the thousand years for a day we have jest entered the third day I believe these days are spiritual days in the physical world our Lord rose on the third day I believe he will rise now in the third spiritual day and bring Israel with him.
That's enough of my ramblings for today.

Love and Peace
Dave