Author Topic: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage  (Read 442 times)

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Offline Browner

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Romans 8:
28  And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the
image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called,
these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

"This verse (28) surely ranks as one of the greatest verses in the New Testament.
... If we do not love God and are not called according to His purpose, then the
promise of this verse is not for us. ... Here (in 29) we see God's main purpose in
working for our good in all things. His ultimate purpose for all of us who believe
is that we might be conformed to the likeness of His Son ... that is, that we should
become like His Son Jesus."
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)

Jesus said those who love God will keep His commandments!
"If you love Me, keep My commandments ?
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him
... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him
... He who does not love Me does not keep My words" (John 14:15-24)

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man
the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." (1 Cor 2:9)
"But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him."  (1 Corinthians 8:3)


Continuing on 6 verses down ...

Romans 8:
35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?  Shall tribulation, or distress,
or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37  Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities
nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us
from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

"No one can separate us! Except for sin, there is no other circumstance in this life that can
separate believers in Christ from God's love ... there is, in fact, one thing ... a thing which God
did not create ... that certainly can separate them from God's love. And that one thing is sin.
If we continue knowingly in some sin and refuse to repent of it, that sin will most definitely
separate us from God's love and bring upon us God's terrible wrath and judgment.
Before we were Christians, we were separated from God because of sin. We were God's
enemies. Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God.
But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger
of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will
become permanent. Of all the promises in the Bible, the promise of verses 38-39 is one
of the greatest. But we must not think about a promise without also thinking about
the conditions of that promise. It is good to remember the promises of the Bible,
but we must not forget the warnings!"
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)

Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who
is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures!
And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.

"conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear" (1 Peter 1:17)
"For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)

Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God's eyes!


"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as
slaves of righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

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Serenity

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Re: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 04:16:32 PM »
Destroying is an interesting choice of words for the title of this thread.

So once WE have finished doing what WE are doing to have the theology all wrapped up nice and neatly, without scope for movement... at what point does God come into the equation to be able to 'breathe' His life into yours, Him drawing you away from sin and God's Holy Spirit convicting you of things?
Whilst WE are focussing on WE then WE are not focussing on God.

Offline francis drake

Re: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2016, 09:57:39 PM »
Romans 8:
35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?  Shall tribulation, or distress,
or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37  Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities
nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us
from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

"No one can separate us! Except for sin, there is no other circumstance in this life that can
separate believers in Christ from God's love ... there is, in fact, one thing ... a thing which God
did not create ... that certainly can separate them from God's love. And that one thing is sin.
If we continue knowingly in some sin and refuse to repent of it, that sin will most definitely
separate us from God's love and bring upon us God's terrible wrath and judgment.
You quote a scripture that tells us in crystal clear detail that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. Then you tell us its all wrong!

In contrast to your theology, Scripture plainly states that God's love was poured out on us whilst we were still sinners and still his enemies.

This is spelled out in Romans5.-
Romans5v6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

ie. God did not wait till we had ceased our sinful behaviour before he loved us!
Quote
Before we were Christians, we were separated from God because of sin. We were God's
enemies. Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God.
Again you directly contradict scripture by telling us that we are not reconciled to God till after we repent.
Romans5v9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God?s wrath through him!
10For if, while we were God?s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
11Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Quote
But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger
of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will
become permanent.
Sin might hide our own eyes from God's love, but that in no way means that God ceases to love us as his child. Even David knew that much!
Psalm139v7Where shall I go from your Spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10Even there shall your hand lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.

That's the whole purpose of the parable of the prodigal son. No matter how far away the prodigal son went did he never ceased to be his father's son.
Likewise, once we have been born from above by the Holy Spirit, we can never ever be unborn.
Being a son has nothing to do with being a good person.
You become a son by new birth, not good deeds.
You remain a son by birth alone, not by maintaining good deeds!
That is one of the most simple truths of the gospel of grace!

Quote
Of all the promises in the Bible, the promise of verses 38-39 is one
of the greatest. But we must not think about a promise without also thinking about
the conditions of that promise. It is good to remember the promises of the Bible,
but we must not forget the warnings!"
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)
Sorry Browner, but you have deliberately contradicted the very essence of what Paul has clearly demonstrated.
Quote
Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who
is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures!
And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.
I have no time for hireling prophets Browner, but nobody in their right mind should leave anywhere and follow your theology, which presents darkness rather than light.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 03:37:24 PM »
*Admin notice,  please keep to the subject matter and not make personal derogatory remarks, post deleted, thanks, please continue*

Offline Browner

Re: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2016, 02:56:50 PM »
The Lord Jesus Christ made a lot of personal derogatory remarks
to those of his day who were fighting against the spiritual Truth
that He was presenting.
I.E. those in gross error certainly need correcting.
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as
slaves of righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2016, 03:14:20 PM »
Aye that He did, but Jesus Christ you are not Browner.  Any further issues regarding my directing here Browner, feel free to message me. :D

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