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Offline francis drake

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2016, 09:15:41 AM »

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Just thought I would wake up a sleeping thread.
The following extracts all come from Catholic sources and they all boast that it is the power of that church alone, not scripture, that enables them to change the time and the seasons!
The ultimate reason for the changes that Rome forced on the christian church was that it enabled them to continue their existing pattern of pagan idolatry.



Roman Catholic Confessions about Sunday


The vast majority of Christian churches today teach the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, as a time for rest and worship. Yet it is generally known and freely admitted that the early Christians observed the seventh day as the Sabbath. How did this change come about?

History reveals that it was decades after the death of the apostles that a politico-religious system repudiated the Sabbath of Scripture and substituted the observance of the first day of the week. The following quotations, all from Roman Catholic sources, freely acknowledge that there is no Biblical authority for the observance of Sunday, that it was the Roman Church that changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week.

In the second portion of this booklet are quotations from Protestants. Undoubtedly all of these noted clergymen, scholars, and writers kept Sunday, but they all frankly admit that there is no Biblical authority for a first-day sabbath.


Roman Catholic Confessions


    James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

        "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

    Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

        "Question:  Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

        "Answer:  Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."

    John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.


        "Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."

    Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.


        "Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?

        "Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'

    James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

        "Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

        "Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

    The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

        "The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."

    Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."


        "For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."

    Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

        "Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

        "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

        "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

        "Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

    Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.

        "Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

    Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

        "Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

        "1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

        "2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.

        "It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

    T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.


        "I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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Cariad

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2016, 12:04:37 PM »
Hi there,

Rather than impose my own thinking here, please let the Word speak,

'Beware lest any man spoil you
through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ.
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:
In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism,
wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God,
Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,
which was contrary to us,
and took it out of the way,
nailing it to His cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers,
He made a shew of them openly,
triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you
in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.'


Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline Rainman

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2016, 01:04:16 AM »
Great but how does trhat speak to me as an unbeilever, never having read the bible ?

Offline Bob Barnes

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 10:11:27 PM »
Jesus said,"the Sabbath was made for man , not man made for the Sabbath". I go to church most Sundays because I choose to, I have missed occasional Sundays for various reasons, I never feel guilty about it because I am 'justified' by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I will not go to hell because I miss a Sunday service, Christ still abides in me and I in Him.Jesus did not accept the leaders condemning his disciples eating corn on the sabbath.

Offline Maggy

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2017, 04:51:52 PM »
I like to take a modern view. Our lives are very different from Biblical times.
I think that I cannot serve God, or my employer, or my family if I am worn out.
I need to get enough rest, sleep, good meals and have a good work/life balance.
I may do a little "work" on the Sabbath, but this modern life does allow for rest and recreation in the evenings. If I need to overwork one day, I take time out on another.
If I perpetually overdo it, I get bad tempered and my performance is poor.
So I am assertive and say no when I need some "me time".
Many people have to work on Sunday, but they get other time off.
My church does weekday services sometimes.
I think we need to look at the Bible in its historical context and update it in line with modern life.
Maggy

Tes Johnson

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 12:12:18 AM »
I like to take a modern view. Our lives are very different from Biblical times.
I think that I cannot serve God, or my employer, or my family if I am worn out.
I need to get enough rest, sleep, good meals and have a good work/life balance.
I may do a little "work" on the Sabbath, but this modern life does allow for rest and recreation in the evenings. If I need to overwork one day, I take time out on another.
If I perpetually overdo it, I get bad tempered and my performance is poor.
So I am assertive and say no when I need some "me time".
Many people have to work on Sunday, but they get other time off.
My church does weekday services sometimes.
I think we need to look at the Bible in its historical context and update it in line with modern life.


Yes @Maggy - I never really understood the basic day of rest, as being self employed I work 6 days a week and sundays have always been the busiest day for me [as I catch up with DIY in the home and jobs and family.

Mondays are usually my day of rest "when I tend to be shattered after the sunday"

Once upon a time sundays also included sunday school prep in the early hours of the morning and bible study prep  [also support group/housegroup/etc - so mondays became my rest day when I would begin work once more - but just take things a  bit easier.

I learnt to do everything "as unto the Lord" as I went along for many years - hence I called every day a sabbath day and rested in God - until I hit a seven year period when everything was like hell and life was a dread.

After this time I realised that "my only hope and sabbath was in Jesus " and not even every day in my work...

God took me far beyond what I could endure - to teach me that even days are limited and I had to lean "not on the limitaton of a day" but on the only Author of the days - even then it was about waiting on God and not about me or my needs.

Offline francis drake

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 09:16:19 AM »
Jesus said,"the Sabbath was made for man , not man made for the Sabbath". I go to church most Sundays because I choose to, I have missed occasional Sundays for various reasons, I never feel guilty about it because I am 'justified' by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I will not go to hell because I miss a Sunday service, Christ still abides in me and I in Him.Jesus did not accept the leaders condemning his disciples eating corn on the sabbath.

Except that Sunday has never been the Sabbath.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

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Re: The Sabbath
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2017, 09:20:04 AM »
Hi there,

Rather than impose my own thinking here, please let the Word speak,

'Beware lest any man spoil you
through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ.
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:
In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism,
wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God,
Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,
which was contrary to us,
and took it out of the way,
nailing it to His cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers,
He made a shew of them openly,
triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you
in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.'


Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad
I missed this reply, but I entirely agree that we should let the word speak.
That being the case, we should reject vain philosophies of man, one of which is the invention of the sunday Sabbath!

The reason I posted all that Catholic stuff (Reply No 16) was to demonstrate clearly that the Sunday Sabbath was entirely created by Papal Rome.
This was done specifically to meld Rome's pagan sun worshiping cults with the church, whilst at the same time destroying the church's Hebrew roots.
If you look at the regalia of Roman Catholicism, you can still see relics of that pagan sun worship.
ie. The monstrance, in which the communion wafer is placed and then worshiped. It is identical to the image of the blazing sun that the pagans bowed before.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

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