Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18379 times)

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Dawn

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2016, 08:49:03 PM »
I have lost track of where everyone is up to on reading through and discussing Revs...Is is the letters to the Churches? thanks
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TJ

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2016, 12:22:27 AM »
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I have lost track of where everyone is up to on reading through and discussing Revs...Is is the letters to the Churches? thanks

Yes @Dawn  :D, We are still contemplating  the letters/messages to the seven Churches to and from John   - ATM - I decided rather than going through the letters - to simply let it run by itself and to dive in from time to time.






TJ

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2016, 01:49:09 AM »
We are getting to the end of the message to the Churches now.

This message being a revelation to John [a past Word to one person] on the Island of Patmos [being under oppression and as the modern  Churches in certain parts of the world  are "under oppression /persecution"] what a great way of using a person at a ripe old age "having been persecuted.....?

Here in this book, we see the One with the Double edged sword [the Head of the Churches] speaking [in the NOW] - here John heard and after hearing wrote it down and sent the message from Jesus as a message to the seven  Churches, but also to all the Churches gathered to hear [to anyone who had ears]

These messages from Jesus arriving as letters [parchments] to the Seven Churches - but applying to all the Churches at that
time and to anyone who would hear and not only hear but be ready to listen for further messages.

This was what the Spirit was saying not just in that age and era , but it also applied to all Churches throughout time and
we can identify with these messages now in this age and era. [here Doctor who - was not  the only time traveler]

Now notice Jesus was the Angel and the Spirit was speaking "far greater things" John 14:12; thus after Jesus had risen
His Spirit continued to work through people as He always had [the comforter] thus the comforter continues to speak now -today

And so although these letters/messages spoke and continue to speak they also speak today - yet there is an ongoing voice
[not written]



[do not get me wrong the Spirit can speak outside of a building or meeting place] as too the Holy Spirit can bring true
revival in a town or city speaking to a non converted lost generation.....and they begin meeting in a building [which is
labelled]



Now lets go to this week "of 2016" and on a Sunday I went to my "Church"

The message was about "the wise men" following the "Star" and they were told to go back by a different route ?

They changed their  path and walk ? they changed their way back "even though they are seen as "suspicious astrological
"sorcerers "

So they listened and heard and did as the "Word said" [now we apply this word as we follow what they did] but the outcome may not be the same ...............

" I wonder when I meet the Lord if I will say [Lord I never did that because your bible never told me too  ......- I wonder if that would be a big enough excuse ?

Anyway lets continue with the message at Church /in a building/meeting place/ where I met the "Messenger" = "Angel"

The message this week was about Mary listening and hearing doing James 1:22;

And  Joseph listened and heard and being "right with God" changed his path and walk and went to a place that Jesus "The Holy Spirit"
directed them to  [as a family]

Now this 2016 /this week / the message/Holy Spirit  finished with "are we ready to change our path to do as Jesus says this year ?"



And so although the written Word can be applied "now today" we also see the unwritten Word. by [faith]

The scripture [written word that then came to me was "His Word does not change"  Hebrews 13:8;  Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday and today and forever.


So although the bible will cease "the Word" John 1:1; Jesus Christ will continue to speak to His people BUT there will be a time when He will no longer create "new creations"   2 Corinthians 5:17;





Offline davetaff

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2016, 02:04:59 PM »
I have lost track of where everyone is up to on reading through and discussing Revs...Is is the letters to the Churches? thanks

Hi Dawn
You are quite right we have jumped about from one end of revelations to the other and it dose become confusing  the heading for the thread is (Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter) but we have jumped from chapter to chapter one minute we discuss the message to the seven churches then hop to the lake of fire.
So where do we go from here

Love and Peace
Dave 

Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2016, 06:48:41 PM »
That is often the way with good discussions!  :)

Where to go from here...well, i will jump in with my my thoughts on John’s letters to the Churches…First, to say, that John must have been in a great deal of distress during his banishment and imprisonment on Patmos. He would have known that those he loved, his brothers and sisters in Christ who he writes to, were also being persecuted for their faith. We can only imagine their suffering and John’s great fears for what might become of them all and for the churches they had worked so hard to establish. Thinking on this, I picture John praying fervently and crying out in great anguish for deliverance from persecution and Psalms 64 and 140 come to my mind here.

John’s descriptions of the heavenly visions he then experiences, in the form of a revelation given to him from Jesus Christ through an angel, have me gripped ! and I am swept along as I read by an overwhelming sense of God’s infinite power, righteousness and glory !!

Where though, to start on understanding John’s visions and how to make sense of the symbolic language and imagery he uses throughout his writing?

I think it must be recognised that John was putting himself at great risk by writing what would have been considered by the Roman authorities at that time as seditious intent - had they understood it. I make this point because, what I think we find in John’s imprisoned and persecuted situation, is am explanation for much of the symbolic language he adopts.  A disguise to some, shrouded as it is in imagery, but this would have been understood by the early Christians of Asia Minor, who would also have been familiar with the symbols and numbers he refers to.

As a further note here, I believe, with some digging around through the OT, it is possible for us to decipher much, or at least some of the visions intended meaning (this being hinted at in previous posts in this thread).

For now though, back to the letters…I see them as they are, letters to the churches existing at that time in Asia Minor: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. Encouraging and praising them for their strengths at the same time as pointing out their weaknesses for improvement.

TJ

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2016, 02:54:14 AM »
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That is often the way with good discussions!  :)

Where to go from here...well, i will jump in with my my thoughts on John?s letters to the Churches?First, to say, that John must have been in a great deal of distress during his banishment and imprisonment on Patmos. He would have known that those he loved, his brothers and sisters in Christ who he writes to, were also being persecuted for their faith. We can only imagine their suffering and John?s great fears for what might become of them all and for the churches they had worked so hard to establish. Thinking on this, I picture John praying fervently and crying out in great anguish for deliverance from persecution and Psalms 64 and 140 come to my mind here.

John?s descriptions of the heavenly visions he then experiences, in the form of a revelation given to him from Jesus Christ through an angel, have me gripped ! and I am swept along as I read by an overwhelming sense of God?s infinite power, righteousness and glory !!

Where though, to start on understanding John?s visions and how to make sense of the symbolic language and imagery he uses throughout his writing?

I think it must be recognised that John was putting himself at great risk by writing what would have been considered by the Roman authorities at that time as seditious intent - had they understood it. I make this point because, what I think we find in John?s imprisoned and persecuted situation, is am explanation for much of the symbolic language he adopts.  A disguise to some, shrouded as it is in imagery, but this would have been understood by the early Christians of Asia Minor, who would also have been familiar with the symbols and numbers he refers to.

As a further note here, I believe, with some digging around through the OT, it is possible for us to decipher much, or at least some of the visions intended meaning (this being hinted at in previous posts in this thread).

For now though, back to the letters?I see them as they are, letters to the churches existing at that time in Asia Minor: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. Encouraging and praising them for their strengths at the same time as pointing out their weaknesses for improvement.

Excellent @Dawn



Lets now go the the very Throne room of God as John is lifted up as in a trance

Here we find this symbolism and metaphoric language as pictures given by the Holy Spirit.



TJ

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2016, 02:54:40 AM »
THE THRONE OF GOD REVELATION 4

Lets now look ahead and forward to the Throne and the  third heaven - that the Apostle Paul has seen 2 Corinthians 12:2;

Here the Disciple John witnessed in Spirit "the third heaven where God is -  In Spirit"

John saw "The Door" [Jesus] open and and a voice like a trumpet [fanfare] saying "come up here"

Now John has a vast theater in front of him describing things that have been and things that are and things that are to come.

Here the twenty four elders sat around the Throne of God.

Now lets begin with this image and ask "how were the elders [of the Church] there before the resurrection of the dead ?

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2016, 03:20:57 PM »
Hi
Thanks Dawn for your post  :thumbs_up: so who are the twenty four elders as they are sitting with Christ I believe they also are reigning with Christ in that case I would think they are the twelve apostles plus the  the great men of the OT such as Noah Abraham Isaac Jacob Joseph Moses Joshua Elijah David Solomon Daniel John the Baptist. Only examples of course.
Then we have the rainbow which reminds us of the Gods promise not to flood the world and destroy all living things.
Then the seven spirits of God why seven we I always think of the spirit as one not seven is it because the spirit has had 7 different functions through out the 7 ages of creation.

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Now lets begin with this image and ask "how were the elders [of the Church] there before the resurrection of the dead ? - See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/88/?action=post;last_msg=53370#sthash.3rE3Q6Wn.dpuf   

I think John was looking forward to the time of the first resurrection.

Love and Peace
Dave 
http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/88/?action=post;last_msg=53370#sthash.3rE3Q6Wn.dpuf