Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18369 times)

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Offline Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #808 on: October 05, 2017, 05:44:40 PM »
@Copernicus B
@davetaff

I have no intention of arguing this point: but will believe what is written. The events which take place in the visions of Revelation take place in, 'The Day of the Lord', or, 'The Lord's Day' (Rev.1:10. Isaiah 2:12,17,19, Isa.13:6-13; Jer.46:10; Joel 1:15; Joel 2:1,2; 3:14: Amos 5:18-20)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline Copernicus B

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #809 on: October 05, 2017, 08:34:56 PM »
Hi Copernicus
I thought I was agreeing with I agree with you about the seven churches.

I can also see Caraids point of view about the day of the Lord of course this could mean jest a sabbath day or the millennium I think it may well be the millennium and John is being shown what will happen during the 2000 years leading up to the millennium.

As for the rapture I believe St Paul makes it quite clear that this will happen at the coming of our Lord.

  1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first   

Love and peace
Dave
The coming of the Lord came in 70 AD. He came in judgement against Jerusalem. The Olivet discourse makes it clear that the generation he was addressing would not pass away until ALL these things had taken place. There is no getting around that. The book of revelations is inextricably tied to the Olivet discourse, since it states all these things must soon happen. You have to first establish that which is non allegorical before moving to the allegorical, that is the first law of hermenutics. If we dont do this then we are all over the place so to speak. Even when  Paul speaks of the man of sin, tell me why this is so overlooked? When he says "That which NOW restrains him" That is present tense. He also goes on to say to to the Christians that they KNOW what is restraining him, again present tense. Humans tend towards that fanciful because of intrigue. It kind of excites us in a sense to want to know these things, and that these things may be in our lifetime, and to get ready and so forth. All that remains now is for the final judgement to come, for the Lord to come like a thief in the night, without warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7cEW4MJac&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7cEW4MJac&t=2s

Offline Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #810 on: October 06, 2017, 10:27:15 AM »
The coming of the Lord came in 70 AD. He came in judgement against Jerusalem. The Olivet discourse makes it clear that the generation he was addressing would not pass away until ALL these things had taken place. There is no getting around that. The book of revelations is inextricably tied to the Olivet discourse, since it states all these things must soon happen. You have to first establish that which is non allegorical before moving to the allegorical, that is the first law of hermenutics. If we dont do this then we are all over the place so to speak. Even when  Paul speaks of the man of sin, tell me why this is so overlooked? When he says "That which NOW restrains him" That is present tense. He also goes on to say to to the Christians that they KNOW what is restraining him, again present tense. Humans tend towards that fanciful because of intrigue. It kind of excites us in a sense to want to know these things, and that these things may be in our lifetime, and to get ready and so forth. All that remains now is for the final judgement to come, for the Lord to come like a thief in the night, without warning.

@Copernicus B
@davetaff

* Forgive me for interrupting, Dave,

'And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple:
and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them,
"See ye not all these things?
verily I say unto you,
There shall not be left here one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.'"

(Mat. 24:1,2) 

* The temple was indeed destroyed in AD70 (see Hos.3:4,5 [below]). The things prophesied by our Lord, began to take place as He said.

'For the children of Israel shall abide many days
.. without a king, and
.... without a prince, and
...... without a sacrifice, and
........ without an image, and
.......... without an ephod, and
............ without teraphim:
Afterward shall the children of Israel return,
and seek the LORD their God,
and David their king;
and shall fear the LORD
and His goodness in the latter days.'

(Hos 3:4,5)

* These verses portray Israel's position even today consequent on their rejection: this would not be so had the Lord returned (see Zech.12:10, Jer.31:31). 

* Our Lord's words from Matt.24:4 onward, are in response to the questions asked by His disciples in Matt.24:3.

'And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when shall these things be?
and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
and of the end of the world?
"'


* In Matt,24:34, He says, 'Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.'

* The word, 'fulfilled' in verse 34 (above)  means, 'may have begun to arise, or take place': referring especially to the first 'sign', in vs.4-5, in response to the first question, in v.3, '... when shall these things be?', it is not the same word as used in Luke 21:24, but the same as that used in Luke.21:32. The word contains an element of contingency, for it was contingent upon the repentance of the nation of Israel, in response to Peter's call in Acts 2:38 and 3:19-26,  then, 'all that the prophets had spoken', would have come to pass (Acts 3:24).

* Throughout the period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles, the expectation was for the imminent return of Christ, as can be witnessed in all Paul's early epistles, written during that time.  However, it depended on the repentance of Israel, and that did not come to pass.  All is now in abeyance until the day of the Lord.  It is then that the events will fully come to pass as promised by our Lord.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #811 on: October 06, 2017, 02:24:12 PM »
Hi Chris and Copernicus
Thank you for your posts interesting points made which will need some thought I don't think Jesus came in 70ad there is nothing in scripture as far as I know which says he returned after he ascended into heaven.

But of course he will return as a thief in the night I believe this is a mirror image of what happened in the physical world when our lord rose on the third day.

In the spiritual time scale 1000 years for a day we are at the end of the 6th day or beginning of the 7th day
in the physical world our lord rose in the dark part of the day when the women came to the tomb at sun up he had all ready risen.
we need to remember the Jewish day started at sundown
like wise in the spiritual realms when he comes on the 7th day of this creation we will not see him strait away but he comes as a thief in the night to put in place everything before he reveals himself in glory.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline Copernicus B

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #812 on: October 07, 2017, 06:19:32 PM »
My advice to all here is to watch the videos I posted. Dr Gentry is a far more learned man than me, and explains it far better than I ever could. Don`t be afraid to watch things that may challenge what you have come to believe. What you believe may be wrong. peace.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #813 on: October 13, 2017, 04:21:21 PM »
Hi
Well after that interesting little diversion I think its time to continue

Rev 22:8  And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9  Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 22:10  And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
   


Here we have the witness of John that he had seen and heard everything that he had written down so we can be sure that all he has said is true.
He then goes on to warn us how easily it is to worship other thing and beings other than God we must be very careful who and what we worship.

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
   


Its only God we should Love and worship.to mean he should see that they are preached to the ends of the earth that's why they are written down for everyone's enlightenment.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Then John is told not to seal the words of the book I take that

 

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #814 on: October 18, 2017, 02:53:16 PM »
Hi
Moving on very close to the end now

Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15  For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
     


What a wonderful promise come Lord Jesus Come, Yes he was the beginning of creation and he is the end he has carried the human race all the way through to the end thank you Lord.

which commandments are meant here is it the ones our lord gave to Love God to Love thy neighbour and to love our enemies of course the fulfilment of the law is LOVE is it not.
Here again we have the tree of life its bean with us all the way from Eden and here it is in the city of our God I believe the tree of life is our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then we have  Rev 22:15 I am at a bit of a lose over this we have come to the end of the millennium Christ has ruled for a thousand years but we still have all these undesirables left out side the city I wonder why.

I wonder if there is to be another creation to save some of them.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #815 on: October 18, 2017, 03:49:48 PM »

... ... What a wonderful promise come Lord Jesus Come, Yes he was the beginning of creation and he is the end he has carried the human race all the way through to the end thank you Lord.

which commandments are meant here is it the ones our lord gave to Love God to Love thy neighbour and to love our enemies of course the fulfilment of the law is LOVE is it not.
Here again we have the tree of life its bean with us all the way from Eden and here it is in the city of our God I believe the tree of life is our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then we have  Rev 22:15 I am at a bit of a lose over this we have come to the end of the millennium Christ has ruled for a thousand years but we still have all these undesirables left out side the city I wonder why.

I wonder if there is to be another creation to save some of them.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave (@davetaff)

* You look lonely here by yourself, so I thought I would join you, to see this Revelation thread to it's finish.

--------------

'And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am the Alpha, and the Omega,
the First and the Last,
the Beginning and the End.'

(Rev.22:12,13)

What assurance the words (above) give to those living through these difficult times, don't they? Encouraging them to persevere and hold on to the end.  For the returning Lord will have their reward with Him.  As His advent is certain, so is their reward. 

Though the angel is speaking, he speaks in the name of Him Who sent him:  That  being the Lord Jesus Christ, Who Himself is God.  The words, 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End,' is proof of this  (Isa 41:4; 43:10; 44:6; 48:12).

'Blessed are they that do His commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.'

(Rev 22:14-15) 

Those, described in verse 15, are not on the new earth.  They are, 'without,' and according to Rev.21:8, will have then been cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.  'Dogs' refer to all unclean, vile, and injurious persons.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad