Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18458 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #776 on: July 31, 2017, 04:03:28 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your post you said

Quote
I am talking about the Church which is the Body of Christ, which has a resurrection hope described in Colossians 3:3,4:-

'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Col.3:3,4)

* God has so identified the members of the Body of Christ with Christ Himself, that in His estimation we are already raised with Him and seated with Him at God's right hand (in spirit).  How wonderful this is, isn't it Dave?  When the risen Christ is manifested in glory, so will the members of His Body be.   

Yes when we are reborn we are born into Christ and when he appears at the millenium we will appear with him in his glory.
but I don't think we will have any consciousness of being in heaven with him its only at the rapture which I believe is the beginning of the millenium.

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There are two resurrections associated with the 1,000 year reign of the Overcomers alone (Rev.20:4-6), the resurrection of the Just and the unjust: so there must be more than two, to accommodate the Thessalonian hope (1 Thess.4:16) for example.
   

I believe there are only two resurrections one at the beginning of the millenium and one at the end those of the first resurrection will be blessed.

As for
are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.   


This is the rapture the beginning of the millenium Its all part of the coming of our Lord in glory what's also  interesting is

Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep   

Paul say here that those who have died are asleep if they are asleep then not dead but not conscious either.

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With the words, 'the baptism of fire', I believe you must be referring to, Matt.3:11,12 & Luke 3:16,17: if so, you really need to look at what this is referring to, Dave.   

I have looked at it and it makes sense to me as this verse will support I think

Deu_9:3  Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
   


As the body of Christ who is a consuming fire we also become part of that fire our purpose to burn up and completely destroy evil this is what the millenium is all about.

Love and Peace
Dave







Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #777 on: July 31, 2017, 08:52:49 PM »
Sorry Dave, (@davetaff)

I can't understand!  We might as well be talking different languages!  I will just concentrate on the Word, and meet you in chapter 21, if I can.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour.
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #778 on: August 01, 2017, 04:12:20 PM »
Hi Chris
no need to be sorry I know I have some strange thoughts not usually the standard interpretation of most Christian churches but like I have said before it is how the scriptures speak to me an the present time I find your posts very informative and helpful so please keep them coming.

If you wish to continue with Rev 21 that's fine with me lets leave our differences behind us and move on after all what is left
is the best part of revelations is it not.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #779 on: August 02, 2017, 02:32:52 PM »
Hi
Moving on to Rev 21

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
   


The millenium is past and here we have a new creation not to sure what is meant by a new heaven I always thought heaven was where God is and only one heaven.

No more sea does  this mean the sea of humanity as in.

Rev 17:15  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.   

dose this mean there will only be spiritual beings and no human beings.

Then we have the new Jerusalem I believe this is all the believers who are the body of Christ and united with Christ what a wonderful picture this is.

love and Peace
dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #780 on: August 04, 2017, 04:19:30 PM »
Hi Chris
I was wondering if this verse was the basis of our disagreement

.  Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband     

Of course this is after the millennium and the rapture is the start I'm a little confused who will reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Or will Christ reign with his bride to be and the marriage take place after the millennium.

Love and peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #781 on: August 05, 2017, 12:08:21 PM »
Hello Dave, (@davetaff),

There were points raised in your reply #776, which I would like to pursue, but it would take us from the subject of the thread, such as references to Col.3:3,4; 1 Thess.6-18; Matt.3:11,12, & Luke 3:16,17; perhaps we will have opportunity at another time.

Rather than attempt to consider the content of your further replies, #779 & #780, directly, I will continue with chapter 21, and hopefully the points you raised will come out as we continue.

-------------------------

* With the words of Proverbs 30:5,6; and Revelation 22:18,19, ringing in my ears, I will begin with the first verse,

'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.'

(Rev 21:1)

* Chapters 21:1-22:5, concern the new earth and those who will be alive upon it after all the judgements we have been considering have come to an end. John faithfully records what he sees, 'and I saw', he does not add his own thoughts or seek to interpret what he sees, he simply writes down what is before his eyes.

* John saw a 'new heaven and a new earth[/color]'[/b].  Looking at the word translated, 'new', which is (Strong's No.G2537) Gr. 'kainos', it means 'new' in regard to 'freshness' rather than to 'age'. Which is worth keeping in mind.

* John refers to, 'the first heaven and the first earth'; and the word, 'first', is (Strong's No. G4413) Gr. 'protos', meaning 'former'.  So the former heaven and earth have given place to that which is not called, 'second', but 'new'.

* In Genesis 1:1 we are told that, 'in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth', this was the first heaven and first earth: but,  2 Peter 3:5-7, tell us that they perished, or passed away.  The second heavens and earth ('which are now'), are kept in store, reserved unto fire (2 Peter 3:7).  That fire is the means by which they shall, 'pass away' (2 Peter 3:10), and the new heavens and the new earth come into being.

* Isaiah 51:6,16 and Isaiah 65:17 confirms this:-

'Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,

and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.'

(Isa.51:6)

'And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant the heavens,
and lay the foundations of the earth,

and say unto Zion, 'Thou art my people.'

(Isa.51:16)

'For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.'

(Isa 65:17)

* We are all familiar with the words, very often written on placards, 'the end of the world is nigh', but that is not true; for it is the, 'age.' that passes away.   This, 'passing away', is spoken of in (Matt. 5:18; Matt. 24:34,35; Mark 13:30,31; Luke 16:17; Luke 21:33).  All will be 'new', not merely in regard to time, but in 'kind' and 'quality'.  The heavens will be new, and the earth new, there will be 'no more curse' and therefore no more sin, or suffering.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


PS:
At the flood, in Noah's day, the earth was destroyed, and the living creatures within it,
(except for Noah and his family and the creatures God told Adam to take into the ark),
but the heavens were not destroyed. (Gen.9:11)
-------------------
1) The heaven and the earth which were created. 'in the beginning' ( Gen 1:1)
2) The heavens and the earth which were created during the six days.  'Which are now' (Gen.1:3-2:3; 2 Peter 3:7)
3) The new heaven and new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Rev.21:1)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #782 on: August 05, 2017, 05:25:24 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for another good post to which I can agree sorry if my posts are a little short but at the moment I'm looking after thee grand sons so a little short on time.

I was interested in this you said.

Quote
* In Genesis 1:1 we are told that, 'in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth', this was the first heaven and first earth: but,  2 Peter 3:5-7, tell us that they perished, or passed away.  The second heavens and earth ('which are now'), are kept in store, reserved unto fire (2 Peter 3:7).  That fire is the means by which they shall, 'pass away' (2 Peter 3:10), and the new heavens and the new earth come into being.   


I don't want to disrupt this thread and thought maybe we could take it up on the Genesis thread as you know I think Genesis has a lot to teach us.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #783 on: August 11, 2017, 08:26:53 PM »
'And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.'

(Rev.21:2)

* This prophetic vision, which John saw and recorded, is literal: just as the New Heavens and New Earth will be literal, so the New Jerusalem, the holy city will be literal, and it will indeed, descend out of heaven from God.

'And I heard a loud voice out of the throne saying,
"Behold, the Tabernacle of God is with men,
and He will dwell
(or tabernacle) with them,
and they shall be His People,
and God Himself shall be with them,
and be their God.'

(Rev.21:3)

* How wonderful this will be, God will tabernacle with men, not just with Israel as before, but with all men. 

* There will be no conditions attached to this, as there was when God tabernacled with Israel during their wilderness wanderings and in the land: see - (Leviticus 26:3,11,12 & 1 Kings 6:11-13). In the Millennium there will be no conditions where Israel is concerned, but that will not be so for the nations - (see. Ezek.20:42-46; Ezek.37:23,24,26-28; Psa.135:21; Psa.68:16,18; Zech.2:10 and Zech.8:3). Here, at this time, when the millennial reign of the Overcomers is past, God's presence among all men ('the nations') will be unconditional, as it was before the Fall.

* What a blessed time this will be!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad